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Author Topic: Skills and spells possible revamp  (Read 25639 times)
Kiri-Jolith
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« on: January 02, 2008, 07:05:25 pm »

Lets discuss skills, spells, saves system and feats revamp here. Don't post ideas about new skills or spells. Just post a list of changes: what to reduce, what to increase and how. For example, you may want to cap saves chance to 90%, reduce amount of saves from certain class powers, increase damage of some spells and so on. What I would like as a result is a finite list of skills, spells, caps and so on on which we could agree. When you post a list, be as short as you can. One line describing what you'd like to change, for example:
- Cap max saves chance to 70%
However, you may also discuss things, but please separate discussion from ideas list.
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Maerryji
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 11:35:06 pm »

- Lower the value of saves
- Let resistance give a corresponding chance to resist affects from spells and skills (most have a natural damtype).

+ And let 100% resists make you immune to something positive as well... Like "no slow = no haste".
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 12:14:15 am by Maerryji » Logged
Raider
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 01:30:04 am »

in general - raise chances for skills to land
all:
- add a level 1 skill to use as a targetted attack in fight, lower level of spells/skills to ease exping(cleric skills/spells come in mind).
- improve shield block
- improve dispel magic
- fix misses chance, high hitroll should be 95-99% to hit.
- raise parry penalty for mages
- about saves, my opinion- should be easy to get 50% protection, should be very hard to get 90% protection.
- not sure about svs from spell ups (bless,protection, eldritch shield, berserk/warcry etc), need a more detailed view on those.
- raise disarm chances. Make it so if you are blinded - you cant disarm(cant see the weapon..)
- return old dirt kick Sad

assassins:
- throw - remove protective shield check, raise chances to success
- ground control - raise damage, add -str/-dex affect
- improve tiger style, perhaps add some style specific feature, like kicks/throw
- shuriken damage need to be at least doubled
- change the way it is with weapon attacks while in styles, let assassins use weapons. Too low defense and no skills if no style
- improve nerve and caltraps
- mockingbird style(style-specific skill)
- improve style affects, reflex saves, more damroll/ac
- improve average of punches, or raise damroll bonus
- add skill like 'quivering palm' to all assassins - stunning skill with low damage, to bypass stun protections
- add manual for spell defense feat analogue, or improve spell defense feat, chance to dodge damaging spells.

fighters:
- change lunge, it still does piercing damage, and scales wierdly with damroll
- body crush still does not check recovery, and mount check is wrong.
- axe spec is gimped, no skill to use for 1 axe, break weapon is nearly useless, cleave+pincer is too few.
- make pincer targeted, and usable out of combat
- h2h spec is gimped, the only gain is ground control
- kick is useless
- why spear and staff spec were splitted?
- no overhead/jab-like skill for polearms, well or just fix lunge, and make it improved if polearm is wielded
- raise pull and choke chances
- drumming maces - either make it reliable 1/2 lagging skill, or raise chances for dazing while it still 2/2
- boneshatter, bleed, cross slice - improve affects
- overhead - missess too often on higher level mobs
- make chargeset automatic skill (with half a tick delay, to prevent abuse)

clerics:
- cause xx wounds - useless
- get shield block and parry at 14/16 rank - very hard to solo exp until those levels, no damaging spell/skill till 13/15
- mace swing - misses too often on higher lvl mobs.
- lower the level of incarnation spells and enhanced damage - there is no good reasons for those to be high-level abilities. Not that powerful and are needed for exping. Chislev form lacks special attack, but i believe there is a reason for that.
- there are also flails, staffs that clerics could use, rename 'mace swing' to just 'swing'?

thieves:
- need more combat specific skills, sneaky attacks and stuff
- add cooldown on 'loot' - flee;loot sucks
- add skills to use with other weapons, not just daggers, so thieves will have any use other than stealing.
- sleeping disarm after blackjack
- stronger and different poisons (might be to assassins)
- old gag skill (to prevent yells)
- dnd style sneak attack - if thief is not tanking - chance for critical hits
- improve traps. Some ideas: fatigue trap, sleeping trap, immobilizing trap, exploding trap
- 'non detection' manual, like improved hide

invokers:
- a lot of spells that have no use other than to get insight: lightning bolt, icicle, earthmaw, tsunami, cone of cold, earthquake, earthshatter, incendary cloud, chain lightning, animate object. Improve damage/add utility
- manual skill to have a 10-15% chance to completelly bypass reflex svs on any spell.


outcasts:
- without librams and in current svs situatation are very weak, need more fighting skills, i am not sure in wich way you'd improve those, perhaps add more dark and spooky skills to use with different weapons.
- also some spells have no use, like acid arrow and chill touch - add more arrows with levels, add flame arrow, improve chilling affect of chilling touch. Raise average damage of lightning bolt. Remove hell ball. There is no hell in Krynn.
- utilize the ability to wield maces, daggers, spears, polearms, whips, flails - there are no skills for those weapons.

transmutters:
- crystalbrittle is useless
- stoneskin is useless, since there is ironskin,  should be more difference between these spells.
- forms lack variety, are too similar
- slow spell - why no svs check if the target is hasted?
- ability to recharge wands might be useful, though more wands in the world needed, as well as scrolls.
- drain spell need to be adjusted,  some items dont give mana at all, some give negative mana, most mana should be from 'magic' items - potions, wands etc.
- make harden skin work like fighter's toughen - only on attacks, not spells.

rangers:
- falcons and bears companions are useless(falcons are weak, bears are not hasted) - should be changed, falcons could scout for target (like eagle eye), bears could do bashes, wolves could do something good too.
- no lagging skill that pierces protective shield, meaning rangers are forced to take flail spec. Add entanglement spell, perhaps, which would work like lash.
- affinities not balanced well, panther gives unique thing, others are weaker.
- pathfinding, to remove mv penalties through hard terrains
- forest traps
- Archery could be fun. Even if its just one skill, like to shoot an arrow in a target within the area, once per tick.


and just a new(for solace) skill conception idea: you type command in fight, it takes time to prepare, like 3-4 rounds, and then bursts the damage. like c 'meteor shower' - and two rounds later they land. or 'martial trance' - and 3 rounds later assassin does series of kicks and punches. Hakke Rokujyuuonshou no jutsu



« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 07:15:06 am by Raider » Logged
Kiri-Jolith
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 01:53:09 am »

A good list, with some nice ideas. I think we could give it a try. But what about saves, when you are at 80% cap you must also think of all ensure-kill spells. With 80% cap on saves we must fix blind, sleep, paralysis, curse, fatigue, rot and many other things. Fix to saves requires a list of all spells, which will become too dangerous.

Also we must think of newbies, and it requires revamping of necromancers. You see, in the end yoiur list was about your preferred classes. Smiley
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 02:01:08 am by Kiri-Jolith » Logged
Raider
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 02:14:04 am »

misstyped, should be 90%. and its not cap, just after you get, like 80% defense, each additional save gives less percents. So, reaching the cap is hard.
As far as i know - those spells you mentioned already have penalties to pierce saves, so it is okay.
 
i'll try to list those.
- blindness
- curse
- fatigue
- rot
- sleep
- paralysis
- hold person
- sting of manticore
- dispel magic
- heat metal
- polymorph other
- pwk
- forget
- plant seed


p.s. - about classes,  i forgot alters(afaik forms are on development by Hiddy), and others whom i did not mention - either no playing experience, or no changes needed. I havent played much by 'strong' classes - druids, abujrers, clerics, necromancers. There was a discussion about necromancers some time ago, and conclussion was like "Necromancers are ok".

my idea about necros:
- improve necro itself(куда уж дальше то..), weaken minions.  1 attack per minion, with chances for special moves like bite, punch, kick, etc. Lower their levels, with special attacks the level of minion wont matter much in terms of piercing blocks. Gief ways to deal damage other than negative(chill touch is weak, magic missile w/o spellcraft is weak)

плохо что нет в форуме фунции игнора.. мэтью либо пьян либо долбоеб. Может и то и другое.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 02:36:09 am by Raider » Logged
Matthew
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 02:18:25 am »

Saves are working fine...
Hr/AC is working fine...

- throw - remove protective shield check, raise chances to success - Crazy idea...

- add skill like 'quivering palm' to all assassins - stunning skill with low damage, to bypass stun protections - Crazy idea

Cool down on loot = fantastic idea

About Invokers, half those spells you stated had no use are quite useful, especially animate object ....
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I don't want it back. You can never get rid of the smell, you know. Besides, that dagger was Flint's!
Matthew
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 02:34:33 am »


- blindness
- curse
- fatigue
- rot
- sleep
- paralysis
- hold person
- sting of manticore
- dispel magic
- heat metal
- polymorph other
- pwk
- forget
- plant seed


Blind, curse, sleep, dispel magic, heat metal, polymorph other, and plant seed are fine. Sting of manticore is not a spell and is hard to land as it should be, paralysis is working fine, hold person could land more often perhaps with a slightly smaller duration.

Quote
p.s. - about classes,  i forgot alters(afaik forms are on development by Hiddy), and others whom i did not mention - either no playing experience, or no changes needed. I havent played much by 'strong' classes - druids, abujrers, clerics, necromancers. There was a discussion about necromancers some time ago, and conclussion was like "Necromancers are ok".

my idea about necros:
- improve necro itself(куда уж дальше то..), weaken minions.  1 attack per minion, with chances for special moves like bite, punch, kick, etc. Lower their levels, with special attacks the level of minion wont matter much in terms of piercing blocks. Gief ways to deal damage other than negative(chill touch is weak, magic missile w/o spellcraft is weak)

Necro's are fine i guess..
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I don't want it back. You can never get rid of the smell, you know. Besides, that dagger was Flint's!
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 02:38:12 am »

assassins:
- change the way it is with weapon attacks while in styles, let assassins use weapons. Too low defense and no skills if no style
- improve jaguar and mockingbird style(afaik there are no style-specific skills, just offense/defense boost)

Ahh, that's one of points I always mention: either there should be monks who fight hth, and assassins who fight with daggers; or assassins gain dagger skills.
Add a 'backflip' skill to Mockingbird style - additional blocker/special blows blocker.
Quivering palm is nice

invokers:
- a lot of spells that have no use other than to get insight: lightning bolt, icicle, earthmaw, tsunami, cone of cold, earthquake, earthshatter, incendary cloud, chain lightning, animate object. Improve damage/add utility

Also, there's lot of quite useless book spells (airbolt, cone of fire, ...). Let it be dragonish fire breath instead with blind affect
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Matthew
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 02:44:35 am »

I would like necro's to perhaps lose dispel magic, its enough that you have to prepare like a madman to fight one without it being able to remove them.
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I don't want it back. You can never get rid of the smell, you know. Besides, that dagger was Flint's!
dedraelos
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 09:08:38 pm »

HR/AC are not fine, they are useless. The only reason to get high AC is for resists, and that takes an insane amount of AC to do any good. You need 650+ AC to get good results from it.
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Quino
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 10:03:22 pm »

I miss very often while HR is about 90
When I had 115 HR, I still missed at easy low-level mobs
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 11:51:35 am »

Make one-round lunge when mounted, for sword fighters to do something decent when mounted...
And there was a bug with its damage type.
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omledufromage
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 07:35:17 am »

Make slaugher skill of outcasts work sooner then it does...
Its ridiculus how it only works when your opponent is half past convulsing on the ground.

I gave some ideas for ranger's affinities once... like... make bear affinity give some sort of deathblow, panther keep it as it is, wolf gains more attacks, etc...
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Matthew
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 08:18:25 am »

I agree with Argonar on ranger affinities, nothing compares to free 100% creep and lag free camouflage at 10th rank. Maybe rangers could gain the creep skill earlier?
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I don't want it back. You can never get rid of the smell, you know. Besides, that dagger was Flint's!
Hiddukel
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 11:10:27 am »

Ranger affinities are fine. I would even say auto_creep fast_camo is not the best one to choose.
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Matthew
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2008, 01:10:49 pm »

Any further comment by me will probably get panther nerfed!  Lips sealed
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I don't want it back. You can never get rid of the smell, you know. Besides, that dagger was Flint's!
gejlord1
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2008, 02:17:02 pm »

make shrink & enlarge so they check fort_svs
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Moon_Face
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2008, 04:34:33 pm »

Ranger affinities are fine. I would even say auto_creep fast_camo is not the best one to choose.

The problem for me here is a poor help for each ability. I'm always angry when see such descriptions like affinities.
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sh*t happens...
Rialon
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2008, 11:05:23 pm »

I'd say bizon is best for mino.
Wolf - crap imho.
Have not tried others as i got imression they are not worth it.
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Kage
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2008, 11:57:35 pm »

- birdie seems not great either, bison and panther seem only choice.  Maybe they should affect animal call somehow?
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