Solace MUD Official Forum

In the interest of roleplay I think the kidnap skill for assassins should be altered a bit. For instance, today I kidnapped and slew someone, but the area I was in was cursed and full of agressive mobs. I didn't really mind dying, so much as the fact that the kidnap skill works almost exactly like the teleport spell.

So what's the problem? Think of a real assassin. If he were to kidnap a sleeping victim to slay him in privacy, would he go to an area he himself could not return from? Furthermore, how could I end up in "A Crypt" when its full of monsters that can (and will) kill me in 3 seconds (ie I couldn't possibly get in in the first place)? Obviously some changes are needed.

My suggestion is to make it impossible to kidnap to cursed areas, as those are mainly the ones with agressive mobs for higher ranking players to fight. I'm not sure of the actual capability of the MUD code to do other ideas I am thinking of, but I do want to hear other opinions.

If there is some reason why this a bad idea please let me know.

It is never bad to give your ideas  :)

I disagree as kidnapping to cursed, harsh areas is often the only way to kill your foe...

If you trapped to the Edges.... just pray for the gemstone ;)

I'm not arguing that it's not effective to kidnap to cursed area, but it's just not within lines of roleplay (did you even read my entire post?).

It seems to me that still kidnapping to the noncursed area is not within the same lines of roleplay. If we are trying to invent something verisimilar, then probably kidnapping also should be prepared, and for a very long time. So that assassin should know, where to he is transferring his victim.

Make it prepared just like assassinate, that no one will use because you have to wait 4 ticks completely exposed and even AFTER that, there is a chance of failure (ie: you don't even get a chance to assassinate)?

Why don't we just reduce the damage assassins do by half and start them out with -30% saves to everything?

Sorry, I'm bitter.

Best way for kidnap to work in terms of making sense is a super effective drag type without lag.

Kidna 1. east

You grab hold of Enno's legs and drag him East.

Repeat to desired area/noexit room.

Of course this would make kidnap useless victim was strangled, or as a way to kidnap out of city . . . I think i agree that kidnap should not take victim to cursed area. Maybe only nieghboring areas? Or just same area teleport?

How about this.. you can drag victim in desired direction (kidnap <victim> <direction>), it will consume movement points greatly, can only work if victim is sleeping or can't see you, has small chance of waking the victim if it's strangled.

Now, i like this type of kidnap but for one thing. You cannot kidnap an awake victim now . . .

Or, solution, when kidnap is used without direction it is a random teleport inside area?

Well, I believe that Lord Habbakuk's idea will make kidnapping more real, but useless in many situations. For example, when attacking groups of players. And reducing moves will not let me take the victim far enough, just to surprize it. May be we should just agree that our kidnap is not kidnap at all, and rename it, leaving this skill unchanged? Or just add Habbakuk's idea to make kidnap more custom. I mean that kidnap someone without direction will work as it works now, and kidnap with direction will work in the way you described. That'll be interesting, I suppose.

My idea was that your change doesnot change situation from the point of roleplay, that's all. I haven't said anything about exact realization of 'kidnap prepare', just supposed that in real life :) kidnappers mostly prepare their crime pretty well. Doesn't it makes this skill more interesting from roleplay view?

my 5 cents:

it can be logical to make kidnap prepared with following adds:

you need 1-2 hours to prepare kidnap in area you want to drag person.

when you kidnap person there are small chance that you kidnap him not exactly to room you choosed but near - in area.

and there are small chance that you will kidnap person not in area you v choosed but in areas around target area.

so it will make kidnap usable... and strategical weapon.

and there will be still chance to break so well planned kidnaping - those small chances...

but need to change saves dependance - now good savesed person immune to kidnap/sting... so dont need to discuse skill when all experience players are immune to it.

i think version of kidnap direction - it s push in other worlds. nice thing... it may be manual of pushing, and kidnap for free, or manual of kidnaping and push for free. push should nt wake person but have balanced lag to not roll victim all over the krynn.

My idea is: if person have much saves, he is kidnapped in the same area or to the same area. So if it has little saves - to the far located area. And assassin can choose - kidnap this person, or kill right where he strangled it.

The explanation of this will be: if victim have nice saves, he is kinda wake some while was pulled and fall down at nearest area.

I meant if much saves - kidnapped to the same or nearest area....

I think Kidnapping and Teleport should be changed in more useable way like..
1. You can teleport/kidnap only in nearest areas.
2. You can not teleport/kidnap into *explore area* (edge, nether world and so on.. it always was more easy way to get somewhere to explore by teleporting but not the solving quest for entrance that is not good for me)
3. You can teleport/kidnap into cursed areas which is not *explore*.

Otherwise it is too dangerous to use teleport now a days.

I suggest just to make kidnap spell not skill. Then it will have sense.

Why not just turn the victim into an item in your inventory.

kidnap thulga

You strangle Thulga, bind him and throw him over your shoulder.

You are carrying:
Thulga the male dwarf
A weathered ranger's sack

1 hour to move victim to prefered location.

actually, I like this idea...
but I think it would have to be more then one hour... and it would only work if victim were strangled... makes much more realistic

Now that is one hell of a good idea.  Things like that will make the realm seem just that much more real!

I agree that it should be more than an hour, as the next tick could be 2 seconds away. Maybe 2 ticks (or the duration of the strangle)?

I vote for drag type still with small chance of waking victic and small move reduction.

I think the carry idea is the best, and I thought of another sub-idea: you could make it impossible to do other things (pick stuff up, fight other people etc.) until you drop the victim (as having someone slung over your back makes it really difficult to do even the simplest things).

I like this idea about carrying. Definitely.

I don't like that idea with carrying. Assassins have knowledge in dark magic. So they can posses some spells. Kindnap can be spell.

c kidnap victim
You open a dark shimmering whirpool that rips space into peaces and swallows you and your victim.

Dark shimmering portal open and you found yourself somewhere else.

Can be something like that. Failed to kidnap a victim may be into ways. You can transfer self without a victim or just failed to transfer self too. Or third way whirpool can swallow only victim and leave you. But I doubt in this. As any spell such spell shouldn't have chaotic energies and live with it's own life. Assassin should control it. But as he is not mage it possible that he can fail sometime to do it.

2 Crusader: If it is a spell - you weaken assassins in heretics.
2 others: drag-type kidnapping is being discussed with other immortals. item-in-inventory is out of question - maybe it adds realism, but is just too cool on gameplay side. While being your item the guy is protected from everything! Okay, we can add bazillion checks for guards, guildguards, clanguards, tracking mobs, stalking, eagleyeing, insighting, gating, summoning.. etc, etc.. but what for?

Nuitari, it must be very short piece of time to carry one at your inventory.
Besides, let's make 'kidnap guard' then to prevent spamming..

Yeap, forgot about them.  ;D Then what is  the sens in skill recall? Same to vanish.

about carriing person while kidnapig  - greate idea. but it can be implemented without char=to=item and with little part of dragging idea:

quick pushing (without delay) = same as carriing - you just dont move simple : east, you use #10 (drag person east) #5 (drag person north). so - it will be more hard to carry people with ""speedwalks" and need to think while dragging - same as carriing in inventory. and we can balance duration of kidnaping by movements

seems it s not so hard to code, compare with turn person to item (just imagine if someone will sell you to slave-trader :)) for 10 000 gold...

'recall' for heretics is pure OOC crap, imho  :)

Though it was placed there with a certain reason - there are just too many inescapable otherwise traps.
Green or Blue Tower (forgot which one), flyonly/swimonly (without a boat) rooms, etc, etc.

(No, you can leave Sla-Mori by feet, even without passdoor and picklock. No, lots of others so-called locked rooms do actually have keys, everyone's just too lazy to find them, even if it costs them life)

We're working on ideas of other skills (and subtle changes in areas) that will render recall unneeded.

heretics without recall - nice to hear...

Heh, it would be nice if slim elf will be able to carry on his shoulder a fat dwarf or huge mino. *shrugs* Dont you ever think about the sizes and weight?

:)
[log]> kidnap Hiddukel
You kidnap Hiddukel!

> i
You are carrying:
  a small Hiddukel

> c desecrate Hiddukel
Dark aura surrounds a small Hiddukel before fading away.

> i
You are carrying
  (Darkened) a small Hiddukel

> c 'transfer object' Hiddukel Chemosh
With a flash of light a small Hiddukel disappears.[/log]

2 Nierth and everyone: size checks are easy.. but.. imagine a 27-level assassin kidnapping his 31-level clanmate to protect from hero-ranked enemy or to carry him right inside the enemy clan! I believe that the skill will be heavily abused if done this way. Thus, I propose 1) kidnap <victim> direction --> drag victim with a small chance of waking him if he sleeps and attacking him if he does not, 2) kidnap <victim> --> drag victim somewhere in area/nearby area and attack, no matter is he sleeping or not.

Well, it should be nearly impossible to sneak lugging someone around.
So from responses and talks about push/pull i gather you's are talking about something like this?

Matthew enters the room dragging Thulga behind him.

358:HP 253:MANA 200:MV 27704:TNL Exits: W> look

A room
With a description and stuff.
Matthew is here.
A bound and gagged Thulga is laying here unconcious.

358:HP 253:MANA 200:MV 27704:TNL Exits: W>

Matthew leaves west dragging Thulga behind him.

I think, exactly like that.