Solace MUD Official Forum

Ok. So merolith and I have an rp history, in which when i was outcasted from my homelands, he and I had been friends, even though he was a guard, and I was a slave. He helped me escape alive. I see him in palanthas being attacked by sakky, so of course, i help him. Some unseen decided to bitch about this, clearly being only able to see in terms of alignment, which is an ooc thing, and having no mind for rp at all. Kiri showed up, asking what the trouble was and i thought it would all be sorted out rationally. WRONG!






http://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/logs/lview2.php?log=20

Fullsh*t

Myself - Original Forum name = Baradul...
Niano - My friend and near brother = Chris
Mir - Another close friend of mine = Mike

What RP? What role? You are ex-applicant of Herecy, you are magic-user before application, you and Merolith are just friends and you can settle RP base under your actions. You cannot stay for yourself, you always nods on Emerath and Sapaol, just answer for your OWN actions. You wanna be neutral but you are greedy and don't want to loose neither skills/spells nor shrine. *Spit*

Agrre with Kiri here. Not sure what the other situations are, but yours is clear to me. How can you slay the army, where your God is a general? How can your longtime friend knight know, that you spill the blood of the innocent and still be on a short leg with you? How can you first join a cult and only then change your alignment?
I am not sure, how exactly you joined the cult of Sargonnas, but when i was in there(Sargonnas was actually around at the time) it was made clear, that you are his servant, his mortal hand on Krynn. And i do not think Sargonnas would tolerate his devote follower being friends with a knight- a follower of Paladine or Kiri-Jolith.
I mean, of course, your concept is an interesting one and worthy of trying to play out, but you should have perhaps done it in a more acceptable manner. Like first proove, that you are not evil, by changing alignment to neutral, only then try to join sargonnas and see, if he lets you in knowing you have friends in Warders, Tower and even knightly ones, see if your friend would bend his ideals of rightiosness and keep a blind eye on your bloody deeds, and only then start your vengeance plot.
That is my imho and i am in no way telling you, Niano, how to play of course.

I wonder how Kiri could be so patient to handle that crap, Niano is spreading. At first he tried to become a heretic being lawful (if I am not mistaken) and being familiar with magic (according to Critic). As a member of Sargonnas' shrine he does not care about who is his Deity and managed to insult the
Army of Takhisis hardly enough to be written in the Book of Dead.

Niano, your previous deeds are quite chaotic and dont have anything common with basical laws of RP.
I would not be surprised if you were thrown away from the shrine like a rabid dog. Your Deity should not
tolerate such deeds. Its my IMHO.

*The words of Niano float through my body and veins to bring this message to you*

-To Critic-
I'd like to start by asking how you would know i had magical knowledge before applying to herecy? I never even practiced invis or detect invis until I decided against joining. As for anything else you said, i'm not going to take rp advice from someone who has a kender heretic.

-To Rialon-
If you'll look at the log, i didn't get a chance to explain my role. I'm not going to share it all here, but i'm not killing innocents, and Merolith knows that.

-To Antarex-
As for insulting the army of takhisis, wanna know how it happened? I'll tell you. I was fighting Eustacia at her keep, and Iwari and Durewn showed up and started raiding. They told me to leave, and I refused. Because of that, they made up some bullsh*t about me attacking eustacia while they were trying to raid and helping them with it. Thats why I'm an enemy, because i wouldn't leave when they wanted me to. So its a pretty pathetic excuse.

Brought to you by Niano...he for whatever reason is unable to open this to post himself.

Looks like crap to me :) Niano's really funny guy you know.. Wanted to become heretic from early youth and having knight friend %) damn.. i guess it's just a powerseeking :)) nice roleplay of powerseeker i'd say even

Niano, How can you try to raise and RP in such manner, if you DON"T have ROLE scribed? You had your chance to explain your RP, but you missed it.

And frankly seems you don't understand the meaning of evil alignment. Kiri seems to me understanding that right and He tryed to explain rather clear that difference to you. I agree, that To follow your role you need ethnos Change.

About "Book of Dead" - you are coward. When I was coming with Iwari for raid - you was asking me "Just to attack outed guard". so eustatika "will have to come to a knight". that was first moment - you tryed to use Takhisis Knight as his own papet. Second we, first, asked you twice to leave. Cause the situation was: Two knights attack Keep Low ranked Eustatice protects it, and Kind niano sit on south of dragon waiting to finish her. So third time I dirrectly ordered you. You refused, and as always started bitching about that you were here first. As you refused I talked to Iwari and sent note from us about Niano in Book fo Dead.

What I cannot understand is that two members asked to forgive Niano (though for me it is Impossible act, Names doesn't dissapear from Book) I even susspected OOC even. ;-) But I think it is the result of  the new takhisis fashion - being kind, mercyfull and ready to help, that I am slowly but confidently burning out. ;-)

ehh. Like afro kid trying to explain that he is not afro, perhaps he even have a pale white skin, and because of this he tried to kill another afro with his white friend. Although it obvious for all he does not trust even a mirror.

Does anyone remember nierth and Grissom basically eloping (blow kisses at each other, stay in the same bedroom of the inn)? Are you going to acuse her of not knowing her role as an evil (maybe she has special priveleges because she is a moderator)? This game is not team deathmatch where the blue people kill the red people-- there are many subtleties and complex roles involved.

However, Niano definitely could improve a bit in his claim of what role he's trying to play. I know for a fact he has attacked plenty of innocents (unless saying all elves are scum justifies an offense), so there seems to be no use defending that point.

I think --as in days of old-- immortals need to hear players out. I remember a few years ago I was playing my tower invoker, and a person of a friendly clan attacked me. I scolded him and told him to "read the damn book in his clan hall", and some Unseen came and stripped my eq for swearing. Do you think a mage carefully contemplating something would react calmly if someone he never dreamed would be an enemy physically attacked him? You have to leave people room to develop their roles and express their chars the way they see them, or they will just play a black and white hack-and-slash MUD to avoid long talks and punishments.

I remember everything. But still Kamilla never fight side by side with Grissom, she even fight against him, when massacre in Palanthas (Takhisis Army against Solamnia) took place. When she was hunting by Reyss, Grissom didnt help her.. Anyway, Kamilla didnt ever had any bonuses and had her own goals with Solamnia and Grandmaster.

The issue is that you may do everything - talking, walking, etc, but not help each other in any battle situation.
And you, Propa, again.. better think about your own actions, not act like somebody ever did. Niano was trying to point at Emerath and so on, but he must reply for his own actions.
And now, it is better to have a role. Then every question can be answered easier.

That's exactly the kind of situation we made the Role System to struggle with.

I was pointing to emerath and sapaol only to show my point about neutral being in evil shrine. Thats all. Since emerath is evil in neutral shrine, and sapaol was neutral in good shrine, kiri still saw some problem with neutral being in evil shrine. And as for my alingment, thats ooc thing. I'm dark elf because it was best fit for my role. Dark elf is still elf, just outcast. I'm trying to rp being neutral, regardless of ooc align. Durewn, about Eustacia...yes, I asked you to come and draw her out. Thats it. When she's hiding in her clan hall and i'm trying to land a strangle or assassinate, and she won't come out any other way, i'm not left with much options. And i'm not takhisis knight, so I don't take orders from you. Critic, you have yet to show me how i used magic when i was heretic applicant. And about that, i was heretic applicant, but found myself unable to stomach the company, so i had to devise a weak rp reason for not joining. I admit that. But you people just don't seem to understand the difference between ooc align and rp align. And if someone made my ooc align neutral, why should I be kicked out from shrine? Thats why I point to emerath and sapaol. And for an align change, why suffer penalties to my skills or spells? Do any of them depend on me being evil? No. They're the exact set of skills and spells that good aligned beast assassins have.

[log]
role niano
This player has no role or doesn't exist at all.
[/log]

-shrugs-

Brand new feature. What if this problem had occurred a month ago? What then? Would there be a problem? Seems pretty crappy reasoning to me. Don't tell me you were the unseen hiding the whole time lunitari?

Role is compulsory then? Thought it wasn't going to be made so?

It is not compulsory. But if you are going to show your amazing rp and do not want to have such troubles as mentioned above, where is a problem to write a role? -shrugs-

Niano, I am not going to discuss here on forum this situation with you and Merolith.

If you wish your character a special roleplaying way consistent with rules - yes. Otherwise - no.

Lizzy, point is: Niano tries to play his role but scribed nothing to play it.
If you have role to play - scribe it. If you don't have - play and think nothing.

Ok, neutral dark elf Niano, why did you attack my elf transmuter without saying A SINGLE word? Is that a part of your role? Or your role is: I'm gonna help Merolith, kiss Emerath's butt, and try to assassinate everyone else slinking in the shadows at the Palanthas ms? That's all BS. My good little beastie don't go around killing dark ones... You know why? Because he's GOOD! And that's he's RP... Live and let live and have a lot of fun...

Btw, this is a diatribe against your RP, not you...

He knows you have used magic because, as a 'dark elf' you must have used dark magic. Elves are not outcast from the society for any other reason. On that note, most elves cannot be 'lawful good' by the games terms. They have thier own laws and should not be subjected in rp to the laws of human's. Elves do things in the dragonlance series that arent compatible with the 'lawful good' of this game. When situation demands they take steps almost completely against a good alignment, therefore most must be neutral in some way. Yeah i reckon there are alot of lawful good elves, they stay home, weave cloth and other things. Some are guardsmen, some not. But the bulk of elves are definately not good. Elves subjugate and oppress those half-elven heritage, human's and sometimes even treat dwarves badly, which is definately not the actions of a 'good soul'. An elven knight is as rare a thing as an outcast elf yet this little world is full of both! Niano should have been able to make his elf neutral chaotic from the point of creation. And as an elf requiring justice or vengence and if his cause was just, should have support in some way from Kiri Jolith. He would have to go about his justice following the elven ways which would definately not be slay every elf you see just because he is an elf(more of a liberate the elven 'slaves' thing. That is the domain of vengence and the actions of a dark twisted soul, something i think as completely out of role as an elven or kender heretic. And when you think about why elves are outcast there is not really much reason one would worship any god other than Nuitari but worship or not no evil god would really accept and elf evil or not as a disciple. He chose a dark elf for his race though (not that he could have been neutral chaotic) so must rp Evil. 'Dark elves' in this game should not be able to become anything other than mage classes, Elves should be able to take all neutral alignments, and no evil god should support an elf. They are despised by the evil gods as the creation of good, the alignment of the actual elf means nothing.

Deda. I attacked your good elf(don't actually remember doing so, but i don't doubt that I did) without a word because what have I to say to you? You are an elf. You are niano's kin who still lables him evil when you know nothing of him. All elves seem to take this approach to me. Merolith lives because he is the one who saved me from being executed. As such he has my trust. I don't kiss emerath's butt. He and I have become friends, so be it then. Am I not allowed to have friends? And attacking you at ms or all elves that cross ms does not count as attacking anything and everything that moves.

Heh, I escaped, so it's not a biggy. But then your role has no backgroound in reality, don't you think. You cannot say you're neutral and start bashing everyone in sight... And you did say something like that to Kiri... And sorry 'bout the butt kissing comment, I was way out of line and I apologize...

Read DL carefully, for example Elhana Starwind has been outcasted due to bribed authority but she had definitely pure and kind soul.

Dark elves - fighters use no magic at all so why should they be -outcasts-?

Exactly, dark magic isn't the only reason for being exiled. And again deda, i don't smash everyone in sight, just elves. I'm completely neutral to everyone except them. I have good friends, I have evil friends, I have neutral friends, but merolith is the only elf.

And how many good non-elves are there?

I dont remember that which means its probably a book i havent read or it was so long ago i dont remember.
I do remember reading about Dalamar in several books(he was a favorite character of mine hehe), one which stated factually that his study of dark magic was the only way an elf could be outcast.

Deda, what is the point of your question?

Strange logic. Every shark IS fish BUT not every fish is shark!
So, every dark magic user is exiled from elven society BUT not every outcast use dark magic!

Good day.

Each and every person who wishes to roleplay must chose their role and follow it. It is unacceptable to change your role to better suit your ooc/pk/other needs each time these needs are changed. It is unacceptable to demand that Immortals change your align, ethos, age, etc. And even worse, to demand such things when driven by ooc/pk needs.

Before you chose race and class, I suggest you read helps. Dark elves must be evil, and knights must fight them. There may be exceptions, but noone guaranties you will become one. And if you are not an exception, you should act according to our roleplaying rules.

If you do not agree, there is always a solution. You may contact Chemosh and tell him, for example, that Kiri-Jolith won't change your alignment. I am sure he will quickly resolve this situation.

'Resolve situation' by Chemosh?  :o
'You dare to demand anything of the GODS, worm?!' *smite* *smite* *smite*  ;D

You forgot something

<deny>  :P :-*

Immortals've become too kind lately ;)

And the only character I ever denied was one immortal ;)

Greetings again.

As I can see, the only wrong thing from Immortals' side was the fact that the speech was too long. If you have no approved role chapter stating you are something special, you have to follow the RP rules strictly, there is no third choice, sorry.

That would have been a much simpler solution rather than freezing me and going on about crap. Simply say that if i want to do this i have to scribe a role. Would've helped much and might not have pissed me off so much. And I never demanded you change my role. I said you could if you so desired because it had been suggested to me before. And how would going from evil to neutral better suit my pk needs? Makes zero sense.

To the outcast elf thing, tanis was almost exiled when he was framed for the murder of an elf in one of the dragonlance book and also the elf's father or grandfather was exiled for leading a movement to open up qualinesti to the other races, so magic isnt the only thing neither is being evil

I read up about Elhana and any other elf i can find outcast and found that only users of dark magic were hunted, the others were just not allowed back in. Those outcast and not a user of dark magic was subject to descision by the current leadership and could be revoked but anyway. None of those elves were evil and tanis was a half elf. The points of my post are still valid, all but the users of dark magic can still use elven ways to regain entry and justice, the descision can be over-turned by new leadership or other things yada yada.

Neither Tanis nor Elhana were dark elves. And noone of them worshipped Sargonnas. Niano will not become neutral. The discussion is over.