Solace MUD Official Forum

make outcasts more powerful?

they are strong enough :)
I can say same: give flourintine to knight! and mounted crosslice!

Knights need, wielding spear/shield at same time. So they can be like, real knights!

Or just dodge.  You think that moving out of the way of a weapon would come natural to any fighter class.

Hmm I think it's not *knightish* - to dodge an attack (kinda of thievery act) , they face with opponent and parry him.
Remember when draconians ran into Inn of Last Home and Sturm even did not want to flee - so that knights do, they don't dodge, they parry.

Regardless spear+shield - yes, sounds logical if weapon is not heavy, but! stand off+shield block can easily make overpowered combo.

I think you are mistaking what to dodge is.  That is just simple combat.  If you are boxing, do you just try to block it with your arm, or do you duck out of the way, or step side it?  The last two are examples of a 'dodge'.  Parrying is really just a last resort, because just because you put your sword in the way and try to deflect, doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

From a point of reality, knights and other swordsmen would very rarely parry. Two strokes was deemed more than enough to kill an opponent with, including a blocking manoeuvre - when on a battlefield facing hundreds of enemies wearing heavy armour, you don't want to be flailing a sword around a la First Knight or similar.

So, dodge would be more appropriate than parry, but really there should be neither - just a form of initiative where knights kill quickly before they can be attacked. But that's not how Solace works, is it? ;) So keep parry for now.

If you think stand off+shield block is over powered, as it could very well be, especially mounted, there are other ways to rebalance. For instance, remove offensive prayers and cure crit, remove the silly dual wielding skills that limit a knight to wielding swords and, oh yeah thats it, swords. Cross slice, righteous warfare and cross block. If your a knight and your not mounted this is all you use, If your a knight and your mounted you use a staff, what kind of knight wields a staff? They need a lance/shield deal, they're suppose to be masters of honourable weaponry(no whips or flails), and especially if in solamnia should be nearly impossible to unmount. I saw Grimm, a decently clothed knight under sanctuary duel a naked transmuter with manticore, he use his staff mounted, and wrath and it was a close fight. Im sorry but hiding behind mount/stand off and attacking with a prayer does not seem very knightly, it should go 'impale, pull out your sword, smash them with your shield, kick them away, swing sword' etc. Mounted combat is kind of a joke, there is really only one way to do it, pugil. Ok they have other skills to use with polearms and spears, charge set. Charge set consists of awaiting enemy attack, there goes impailing, which is also governed by what comes next, so you charge set, enemy attacks and then what? You lunge? Hell no that crap could get you killed, 2 round lag for half pugil damage? What is a knight suppose to do, flee and charge set again? Or flee and try to impale again? Those options don't sound very knightly either. A mounted knight SHOULD be feared by all, and an unmounted knight should be a formidible foe. In dl books no mere warriors are a match for a trained knight, warriors benifit from other things, like fighting dirty -kicking dirt in your eyes etc, knights should have no way to blind and opponent, including wrath. Its dishonourable to attack a blind opponent, if a knight blinded an opponent in some way he would have to stop fighting until the opponent could see again or in the case in which blindness is permenent he would ask him to yield or offer mercy(a quick death) cause theres no way anyone blind would last 5 seconds against him.

Umm, guys, the name of the topic is not "Make knights more powerful...". Make and outcast and see how many skills/spells he has, and then compare it with a number of skills/spells a knight has... See my point?

Knights are definitely more powerful than outcast knights imho (on the average). This is mainly because at higher ranks they get superb protective spells while outcast has basically nothing, and his maledictions become nearly useless (even he gets lucky enough to land one the knight can easily cure it). Deathknights on the other hand.... :D

As far as using pike/spear + shield, I think it's a good idea to implement it, as knights commonly fought this way in the middle/really early ages. Maybe just not allow them to use standoff while using a shield, as they already have mounted fighting bonus etc, and they will simply strike with it as they would a sword.

yea! Make outcasts more powerfull!!! Muahahaha!  ;D
*winks to Immortal team*

Hey, Prop, have you ever, EVER seen a deathknight so far you've been playing Solace?

Yeah, years ago I saw Adramaelek and I think one other. Lately??? NO.

First Slomster, second Horvaraz = Bajoi

Oh yeah, Horvaraz... possibly the best dragonlord ever :)

As much as I know, in order to become a deathknight you must find some manual first, read it, acquire Chemosh's attention, and pass his test(s)... All this on your own... Does this sound feasable to you? Becoming a lich is much easier,  at least you have mummes...

Anyhow, you turn into a deathknight, that is you become undead , and vulnerable to anyone that has turn undead or banishment spell... Where is  fun in that?

Since 1999, when I started playing Solace, outcasts got only brutal block and hellball, + energy drain was modified and made non-stackable when once affected the victim... And knights got many new empowers/skills...

Is it possible to read his logs?
And no, AFAIK knights did not fight with lance+shield (I mean when they fought alone or in a small group)

Its easy to check: just take a spear and shield and try to fight a swordsman or axeman. I did. After this you wont tell how knights fought :)

Lance+shield is good in a band of such knights, when mounted etc. And mostly in first charge, after charge, in battle its better to use more shorthanded weapon like axes etc.

Were not talking about a jousting lance here, much smaller and lighter.

people don't stand off with jousting lances anyway ;D

Some ideas:

A manual spell, similar to blessed weapon, but has neg damtype... let's call it "soul steal" or whatever;

instead hail of stones, which has earth damtype (correct me if i'm mistaken), give them area spell that also has neg damtype...

completely remove shove, cause it's useless...

brutal block should be performable with flails, not whips...

crucify should give some ac and saves bonuses, not just like 50 health or 35+20...

Hey, the most popular and rememberable players since 1999's is DKs: Icculus, Siorosh, Tilak and others. Horvaraz had bad link, so he lost mind too often. 
And outcasts ruled without any hellballs and other new feats.
Anyway DK is too much for balancing outcasts with others. Stop it.

Dont like outcasts dont play them.
Every class in curve hands is underpowered.
*No offence*.

Crucifiction of players gives saves bonuses. Or at least it used to. Just like burial of crosses for knights.

Err.... Message was sent twice. Anyways. Outcasts seem strong enough.

Just give outcasts wands/scrolls/staves. Does not make sense for outcast not having them, they are mix of dark mage/warrior after all. Even knight has scrolls, means he is more skilled caster then knight or what? Just my two cents

Novann, all the chars you mentioned were highlords... What about those outcasts that are clanless? How can they fight a knight like Austin or Grimm? Spam cleave until you wreck the keyboard? No spell is usefull against hero ranked characters.... Knights at least can spam wrath until they're blue in the face...

P.S. I love outcasts, that's why I think they need be improved... :P