Solace MUD Official Forum

- This is a more basic attempt per Kiri's request to state some ideas.  This post is assuming the consensus is, that guardians and cobar could possibly use a minor adjustment for a more level playerkiller versus other clans and a less pigeon holed lifestyle.  This is also perhaps a place for others to voice opinions on other clans they feel could use a look over.  These are a stream of consciousness of ideas I dont assume all will be considered but perhaps one from the many.  I am not special just have some ideas.   Feel free to dispute ... it is our way  ;D

1) Cobar Khalkhist can rescue.  They are brothers.

2) Cloak of horsemanship is same except for warrior classes gives damage and hitroll.

3) Cloak of horsemanship is same except for support classes gives mana regeneration.

4) Cloak of horsemanship should no longer protect from bashing unmounted,  you have been dismounted the protection is late and unnecessary. 

5) Cobar members should not lose normal mounting fighting benefit ie. Lucky hit.  No other clan loses an ability when inducted.

6) Make horsemanship skill more accurate.  The helpfile implies you dodge blows and sense dangers.  Interpret this as small percentage for mount to elude bashes and trips and takes blows for you more frequently to supplement no autoblock powers.

7) Support classes (clerics etc) gain empower "Wrath of Myran" Effect can be similiar to room affecting prismatic spray or combination elemental and physical damaging empower.  If this overpowers....support classes can lose luck of cobar in exchange as it is not so useful to them at current implementation.

8.) One major skill from each weapon specialization that could not normally be done mounted should be allowed for by a cobar. 
    - Swords = ie. cross slice
    - Daggers = ie. bleeding
    - Axes = pincer
    - Maces = drumming
    - Hand to Hand ? = crush able mounted?
    - whips, spears, staffs I believe are unrestricted
    - majere priest = swipe?

to be continued....

You can already pincer and drumming maces mounted, and clerics are already very strong in cobar...

PS. I thought the idea was that the cobar took damage that would normally fall on your mount... to keep it safe and able to battle. If your a riding, your horse is your legs. A wounded horse is a crippled leg...

9.) Khalkhist should be mightiest mount, I think if a clan is to be based around it.  Is it ? If a cobar is dismounted...he is nothing...can another clan be incapacitated this way?
  - Give khalkhist a random attack during combat (along lines of ranger lions raking, or asssassins kick) this attack is unblockable or has a higher hit percentage.  Khalkhist misses often at hero pk and any high ranked mob. ( it could look like "Your Khalkhist rears up on his hind legs, his kick MUTILATES someone"  Not for super damage just some flare.

10.)  Lessen cooldown time on Call khalkhist.  It is their means of survival

11.)  Add skill trample.  A battle initiating skill with a cooldown time and foe has a trample guard for some hours...cannot be done during battle.  This skill has a chance to stun a foe and possibly dismount them if riding...damage is not the main purpose but more then a bash but less then a cleave  ;)

12.) Add empower,skill or spell "Spirit of Whinan".  Like a cobar bless.  Gives hitroll (+1-4), minor saves (+1-3), and ac (-30 to -60)   or   it gives physical resist + 5 and lightning, cold, and fire resist + 5 and some hitpoints (20-40)

13.) Warriors get Riding styles.
   - Charging style (offensive, reckless and aggressive) minor minus to hitroll (-4 to -8) and large bonus to damage roll (+10 to +14) and chance for extra attack (righteous warfare like in triggering occurences) with a severe AC penalty (+80 to +100) perhaps even dexterity penalty.   It could look like " You grip your Khalkhist with your legs and Charge into battle"
    - Flanking style (defensive)  Gain AC..lose an attack per round and lose high damage roll and hitroll, and gain a  small chance for an extra block (the chances similiar to foresight)

14.) Track skill.  Works like stalk but does not initiate combat...and lags you .(says they are great trackers in some descriptions)

15) Read wind skill.  Gives approximate location of pk ranged target.

...Again some of these in combination with others suggested is not possible.  Or code is not worth it.  But concepts are free  ;D

  Coming soon Guardians suggestions then open forum of other clans for investigation.... ( this is not "just" cuz I like these clans or am currently leading one  ;) these two seem in need of some attention based on playing them, others and forums)

- Thanks I wasnt sure about those weapon skills.  I believe Clerics as a class (especially with horse nomad) are just stronger mounted and the cobar (as well as guardians)  simply provide a means to stay mounted longer with a  harder to kill mount for them, which is why I joked earlier about kazo inducting 5 clerics .  As when I fight clerics I slay the mount first priority.  As for taking the damage instead of the horse...every cobar loves his steed but the point is to live on for the tribe I think...besides the horse does not stay and fight enemies after his rider is dead.

I don't see how a little horse should be stronger than a dragon or griffon 3x its size .... The idea of the whole mounted plainsman warrior attacking, seems like it should be a low armoured barbaric attack, it should be an attack of speed and ferocity then retreat making use of the horses, rather than stand and fight. Perhaps giving the cobar some improved version of berserk or impale or something that does huge damage and leaves a large malediction but has a cooldown of 1 or 2 ticks.

- I didnt make the clan...but since it exists and is based on this mount..it should be stronger I suppose.  And if you look at it...its not a little pony.  Besides its all relative...A khalkhist is enormous from its description and Id assume its larger then a clydesdale which put next to a gryphon from some movies like "Chronicles of Narnia" would squash it.  Should these gryphons and dragons be so strong and clan members have superior clan powers?  that is part of this subject.
    Now what your suggesting is interesting and has been considered..as in making a skill set based on the player not the mount.  But I believe as far as "code" goes, that ship has sailed...your speaking of revamping the whole clan basis.
 - Just sounds too much like a mounted heretic your leaning toward.  This clan is more closely connected to a Native American tribal flavor more so then a Mongolian style mounted pilager.  Thier help files show this more clearly I believe with their code of sorts.  Im no super D&D historian but I cant find much about Cobar cept this over and over.
        Kazo was also made a spirit guide by immortals...not by his notion..so spirituality also seems a large part.  But anyway...add some more specific ideas and criticism..I can always count on you for that Matthew :)

- Guardians are a unique clan that has the distinct responsibility and pain of fighting crime...while simultaneously participating in clan pk.  Half their powers only suit a select class or two and the other half are only applicable to criminals.  And it is debateable if any of them are particularly effective in clan battling.  While certain classes will be naturally suited to some clans and gravitate towards them a more varied class selection should be viable for a given clan other then just for rp purposes.  As follows are some suggestions for guardians to be more of a participating clan base as well as continue on as an effective law force.

1.)  Shields as in several other forum debates is a novelty or worse a hinderance for many classes.  Besides Clerics and assassins at times...the shield is used for only unique situations by other classes.
   - Transfer stats and effects of Guardians shield to a Helmet . 
     Call it "Crested Helm of Justice"

2.)  Special guards are appropriate for criminals.  No aid to a smart clan rival..this is fine.  Add a skill that aids in general pk and clan pk. 
    - Call skill "enlist emmissary" one of these randomly is summoned a medic/bodyguard/constable" (just one of those)  nothing overpowered half the level of guardian....medic merely casts cure light randomly , bodyguard will randomly rescue or takes the first attack and leaves, and constable is just an attacking minion.  large cooldown and minion is clearly not a tide turner.

3.) Add spell to Warrior classes "Kiri-jolith's zeal" Self Castable only, out of combat and short duration (2-3 hrs).  Haste like affects with blind seeing(not immunity to blindness but rather a piercing vision)  For example you can be dirted, sparked, or blinded..but you still see through it...and after its duration is over you will return to blind status if affects of malediction linger.

4.)  Add spell to support classes "Aura of justice" Castable on any, out of combat.
 Affects are protection from chaotic ethos (Im not sure if this is possible in the code for protection from ethos rather then alignment) Also minor saves and ac bonus.

5.) Add to clan members Spell or skill "Hammer of Order"  Deals Energy or Crush damage and drains stamina.  Also possibility to stun if used on criminal.
  " You reach up and a hammer is placed in your hand by Kiri-jolith and your launch it
     You hammer of order's wrath MASSACRES Someone"


     

-  I have put these  two together as they are quite formidable and comparable.  This does not mean their is nothing to be investigated.

1)  Takhisis dragon is still not callable by clerics?  Seems they have most to benefit from it.  Give it back to them? and take it from others who need it less?

2)

Skull order gets dragons, but only at mid rank or higher.

Suggestion for guardians.

The shield currently gives at hero level casting, 5damroll 5hitroll some hp and potential to block spells and healing

It provides no saves, no ac, it also does not get enhanced as you progress through
ranks of guardians.

Dont agree with kazo's idea of wrath, to much like knight skill wrath, and at hero ranks
probably just as effective.

I like the idea of a helm, i dont know how it would be roleplayed blocking spells.

currently they only have really one thing for clan pk. shield, which limits them to clerics and assassins, potential invoker/transmuter

let you know of some things as i think of

- Appreciated input.  As I know you have experience with this clan as I do.  The jist of my hammer idea is to give guardians a skill for clan pk as you stated is needed.  The "wrath" was just to show it was doing energy damage.  Main idea of that particular skill was a damager dealing skill or spell for possible classes with a lack of this...as well as extra punishment if target was a criminal?  Any alternate idea?

i think they should have more powers that can will fit appropriately.

they also use to be "solamnia" just a different sect, yet other then
stallion, all they have is shield?

skills for PK clan
Guardians:
Guardian Shield
Alert
Stallion

Solamnia
PDS (huge)
BoS (huge)
Solamnic plate (huge)
dragon (which flys)
shadowbane
crusade

 ;D ;D ;D Sorry meh drunk...
In my view...
Remove Guardians as cabal. And grant their powers to the Crown wing of Solamnia... Just my thoughs...
1. Mage can't be guardian by RP reasons... Really... This strange (for me) that person who devoted his life to studying of magic have time to patrol the cities.
2. Minotaurs... Yep they honoured beasts, but their path is power. I doubt that real minotaur could obey the law if some person, kender for example, call him cow(for example) ;) Just bash,crash,slash this one. Honour jopta!
3. Also no Enthropy cabal nowadays. So, no primary foes. 
4. Solamnic Order could be split to three wings. Rose: Crusaders ones. Fierce warriors of light. Sword: Healing ones, mostly supporters and keepers of code. Crown: Guardians. All with unique powers, but unable to grant it to clanmates from other wing.

Also remove Cobar cabal cause they haven't foes.. really. Raiders... bullsh*t as for me... Or unite em with Warders. Two wings: foresters and plainsmans.

P.S. You can laugh about it. But... Not so much players online to fll the cabals.
P.P.S. DREAM! Clan for kenders! Something like gipsy tabor:) With clanhall changing it's place when the tabor moves:)

Thank you.

i kind of like it :)

I like the idea with the guardians and solamnic's but, i don't see why you want to remove the cobar... even if it is just an RP option at the moment, some people play for just that... Its good variety. I would love to see a dwarf and and elf clan as well. Maybe even a minotaur clan and remove heretics...

I can think of many abilities that would seem nice and usefull... but mostly what worries me is that there would have to be a selection of these to make the clan more interesting... And what worries me most is that I like all the abilities the Cobar already have. My deepest opinion is that the cabal should continue like it is, and maybe just improve some of the skills that they have (except for the addition of riding stances for the warriors).
A horse rider is supposed to be extremely powerful when with his mount, but when left unmounted, he is nothing... That seems not to happen very much with the Cobar, depending on the class. Razlen many times found it more usefull to stay unmounted cause his defense is much better unmounted. I am sure that fighters also find some advantage in dismounting in many cases, and this is what most concerns the clan. As said before, the Cobar should never want to dismount, and making them unmounted should be their enemy's primary concern.
Most idea's of new skills and empowers I think are not of much help, since the clan as a whole as it is now is, in my opinion, excellent! ;D
Here goes my opinion on the ideas given here so far:

About ideas 1 and 10
I think it makes sense if Khalkhist could rescue, though It would be the responsibility of the rider to take care of the Khalkhist as he takes care of him. Without his Khalkhist, he is meat. ==> This is why I think idea 10) i think is not acceptable (for balance and rp terms). It would only encourage the clanmember to accept his brother's death easily. The cooldown should stay as it is. Khalkhists already have quite large life, and with a large cooldown, the cobar is encouraged to take care of his brother, and with rescue, the Khalkhist can take care of his rider.

About idea 2 and 3:
About the cloak. I find it quite useful already. but if it is underpowered... Kage's idea I find nice, although I think it would make more sense if it just gave more hp to its user. Instead of 30, give 100 or something, for both, warrior and support classes.

About idea 4: Agreed. It encourages the Cobar to never be without his Khalkhist.

about idea 8 and 13: This tries to fix is the biggest problem of the clan. I honestly don't know what about this would balance the clan with others... but a fighter for example... cannot use stances/toughness while mounted... this is crucial. Many skills I think cannot be used on mount only because stance cannot be used on mount.
perhaps this could be fixed with the creation of one offensive and one defensive stance for when mounted, much like put in idea 13).

about idea 11: I saw in help file a Cobar skill named Charge, that I found quite interesting. Maybe it should be implemented?
//

- I dont think the solution to a low population is to encourage it by cutting clans out.  This just leaves less places if the population rises which I think it will. 
    But this sight was interesting as a possible division of the cobar similiar to solamnics (rose, sword, crown)  It showed other human populations...some of which are tribal or shamanistic. http://www.dl3e.com/lexicon/13613.aspx

- Particularly interesting options are  of course Cobar and Arktos (nordic types) Kazar (truly barbaric) and Uigan (perhaps clerics are this)  You would be placed in one of these tribes..based on your class..but clearly all be in the same clan (some tribal unification to preserve their way of life rp)

I am not sure if these cultures could even come together in a tribal clan or even lived in the same time line...but Its another option to split skill set perhaps like takhisis with skulls, thorn and lilies.

[log]help charge
 More than one entry matched your request, use <help number> to read specific one.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - (136)  'Charge'
 - (418)  'Charge Set'
 (2 help entries found)

| EW> help 136

 Keywords: 'Charge'
--------------------
   A Cobar horsemaster can urge his horse forward in a thunderous charge,
   crashing into his foe and hurling them roughly to the ground. The rumbling
   hooves is said to be the echoes of the battle cry of the Cobar God of War.
   
The silvery light of Solinari fades from the sky.
 EW> charge
Huh?[/log]
- yup it's there...sounds nice...how long has that help file been there? since conception?. lol I had no idea,sounds like my idea for trample.  Give the Cobar this..since it seemed planned already.

- Add improved flank like skill to Cobar. Either one that blocks retreat Call it " blockade " or to that effect. 

[log]> blockade knucklehead
You Khalkhist trots in close, cornering knucklehead
...fighting....
Your  khalkhist notices knuckleheads attempt to retreat and blocks the way with her body[/log]
- or a skill that pursues a fleeing foe(maybe only works on mounted foes) in a limited manner like one step follow after landing the skill in battle.  Call it "horses scent"
[log]> scent knucklehead
Your khalkhist is now trying to remember knucklehead's scent
....fighting....
knucklehead fled
Your khalkhist sniffs the air and rides in the direction of knucklehead
you ride west

>Some room
[exits: east]
knucklehead is here
Knucklehead yells ' help a Khalkhist is charging me! '

>affects
The following skills and spells are affecting you:
'horse scent' skill is active for 1 hour [/log]

Hey Kage, your stealing all of rangers skills and givin them to Cobar!  :'(

 ;D Well... I honestly don't think Cobar should have these ones you last spoke of... I still think what I said before. Only about flank... I think and lots agree that its a very weak skill. Fails too much.

- well since flank is crap for the world...maybe make it good for cobar...like luck of cobar replaces mounted fighting lucky hits...this can replace flank. 
   Its because rangers are so cool  :P  I just grab onto one and they take off sniffing people (saw that once today).
   But seriously the long fight today with cobar and guardian was realistically several normal classes fighting with each other that happen to have some special mounts...no real clan related pk skills exhibited as their art any to exhibit. 
    Argonar I think you like Cobar mostly for the reason I like them totally...it is their unique rp possibilities not so much their practicalness.  Something is missing from both these clans in the way of practical pk aiding abilities.  I believe an unclanned majere cleric and a ranger vs a seasonal assassin with an abjurer transmuter would go much as it did today.   Only difference was a couple times a mount rescued and a couple times maybe someone got a super whack from an overhead.

Give heretic empowerments some bonuses like the rest of the clans have!

spellbane: saves versus all depending on the rank in the clan and player's leve 2/3/4/5
resist: resist physical depending on the rank in the clan and the player's level, namely 3/5/9/10

Make paint bonuses stronger depending on the rank in the clan, i.e they should grant more resistances as a player climbs his way up in the clan.

change treatment stronger by being able to remove drains, withers and the cursed faerie fires and lower resists also rank dependant... btw, fists should lose bandage and gain treatment as well

gaga  ;)

Yes, add autoinstantkill skill too

- skill flares with determination too  ;D gaga  ;D

I don't think 25 should be the cut off for joining a clan. it can take so long to find a god or leader than you sit at 25 just waiting. i say either take it away or raise it till 30.

What i'm asking is not that much since the other clans' empowers grants saves, resists, blockers... Not to mention the mounts. I remember spellbane granting 10 will save and someone had a problem with that so it was changed. Fists, who are supposed to be the ultimate fighter machines soak damage like they are punching bags... Take a look at the log of Kungra vs Ariaste. She would have without sweat were it not for some gay assassin...

- Make a cobar or guardian and it will make you love herecy again  ;D ;D

Hih. Bad idea if you think about it, because the same problem would occur. People would rank to 30 then apply, and noone will induct. Why don't you just apply at 18 which is minimum and by the time you are 25 you will be in.