Thief class overhaul

[rexbu]

I have a lot of ideas for this class that I think is very interesting but very underpowered. If there is a will to consider changes I will post many ideas here.

[zondra]

One should be expand the spells learned. Sure maybe displacement is op but haste should be ok at least. I agree thieves are an awesome class but pretty weak right now .

[khiren]

I started writing down QoL improvements in a notebook that I planned to post, but never got around to finishing.

Here is an insert from my POV for thieves

* A manual that teaches the art of dagger sharpening, permanently adding the *sharp* flag to any dagger-type weapon.
* An advanced trap-laying guide that expands the *traps* skill with two powerful variants:
Web Trap: When triggered, the victim becomes immobilized and pinned to the room for a duration scaled by their Dexterity. The higher the DEX, the faster they can break free. Characters enveloped in any flame aura or protected by a fire shield will immediately burn through the web and escape.
Knockout Trap: Failure to evade results in the player being blackjacked, temporarily unconscious. The same checks are performed as for blackjack.

[khiren]

One should be expand the spells learned. Sure maybe displacement is op but haste should be ok at least. I agree thieves are an awesome class but pretty weak right now .

If not displacement, why not blink?

[zondra]

Definitely blink. I think even iron skin etc

[Sirri]

Problem with thieves in Solace is that they don't really have a niche. If we only had actual dungeons with traps to disarm and doors to unlock, but that's a lot of work for our army of zone builders.

I'm open to ideas, maybe some sort of "city ranger" style?

[zondra]

I think even buff some of the skills they have. Hamstring more like caltrap etc

[Raider]

two specs? thieving/traps vs combat

Regarding spellbook - i think it should be just scrapped. Only basic stuff is allowed now - like det inv, passdoor, spiderhands, invis. And some damaging spells. We cannot allow powerful spells in sake of balance/thematic. So it will always be rudimentary. Plus will just promote use of multicharring to scribe the spells.


Some of my old ideas:
- add skills to use with other weapons, not just daggers
- sleeping disarm
- stronger and different poisons (might be to assassins as well) - Paralysis (chance to lag/freeze), Healing impairment (halves recieved healing), Crippling (slow), Damaging (instant damage)
- old gag skill (to prevent yells)
- dnd style sneak attack - if thief is not tanking - chance for critical hits
- improve traps. Some ideas: fatigue trap, sleeping trap, immobilizing trap, exploding trap
- 'non detection' manual, like improved hide

Some other ideas from this forum:
https://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/index.php?topic=4183.0
https://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/index.php?topic=4219.0
i like 'Urban Awareness' - better fighting in cities

[khiren]

When it comes to thieves, I think they should be split into sub-classes. Personally, I like the approach in Baldur’s Gate 3 (based on D&D), where they’re divided into:
* Thief
* Arcane Trickster
* Assassin
* Swashbuckler

Since we already have assassins in the game, that subclass could be dropped. Splitting them into thieves, arcane tricksters, and swashbucklers seems like a solid path forward.

I could find some time to break up these three subclasses and map their skills to what would work for MUD. But this is considerable work, and if there is no desire to go this path, it would be a waste of time (my time). 

@Sirri give me a heads up if you want me to do this.

[rexbu]

I have made a doc with suggestions for thief class. Feel free to comment and suggest.
Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16UTTuZqxrRP-PFsQsYnmHJqkRayAOC0pztMTuDTTzEk/edit?usp=drivesdk

[zondra]

I think adding some shield skills would be good..maybe give them a skill like seasonal assassins that give form a haste.  Maybe 4th attack either dagger.

[Sirri]

Will implement some of the ideas here; I want to make thieves solid against mages but wrecked by fighters.
(Thieves are a bit low in the current priority list though)

[zondra]

Will implement some of the ideas here; I want to make thieves solid against mages but wrecked by fighters.
(Thieves are a bit low in the current priority list though)

Yea I know axe skill for outcast is number one . 

[rexbu]

Thanks @Sirrion, respect. I understand there might be a lot of coding effort there so any changes are welcome.

[zondra]

Yea I'm sure it's a pain to make all the changes

[khiren]

Will implement some of the ideas here; I want to make thieves solid against mages but wrecked by fighters.
(Thieves are a bit low in the current priority list though)

When you said “but wrecked by fighters,” it immediately brought to mind that old D&D movie (from 2000, I think) where the fighter, Damodar, absolutely wrecked the thief, Ridley Freeborn.

Couldn't find the whole fight, but the very end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XmCWC-WXC8&ab_channel=StuartEvansVsTheWorld

[zondra]

Was thinking hamstring should be like caltraps. Maybe each move counts for like 25 or 30 . Also Maybe have bleed have a chance of cutting the nerves in the arm or leg for slower moves or loss of use of arm or - str and dex on top of normal bleed.