Priest vs Heretic wanna-be: sophistic battle

[Ares]

I was travelling when Niano attacked sentinel. Very irritated I returned to protect outer guard from person out of my PK range, but that turned out into a very interesting conversation...

Of course it was a bit hard for me to lead sophistic dispute in non-native language, especially given the fact I try to speak archaic, so some of my phrases may seem wierd, but I hope you shall get the message I tried to put in them.

Please enjoy!


By the way, Niano, you shall not be inducted in the Camp and not only because I opened your eyes...

c sanctuary sent
By the Gate

[Exits: north south]
     The torn remains of a sentinel are here on a cross.
(Translucent) (Red Aura) Niano the male dark elf is here, fighting a sentinel.
A sentinel is here, fighting Niano.
A sentinel says, 'Aid me to defend our halls, Guardian, for the sake of Justice!'

<1085/1085hp 664/670mana 147/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is surrounded by a white aura.
Niano's claw devastates a sentinel!

<1085/1085hp 604/670mana 154/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano's claw maims a sentinel!
Niano's claw maims a sentinel!
Niano's claw devastates a sentinel!
A sentinel's pound misses Niano.

lo sent
<1085/1085hp 604/670mana 161/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
His face is iron mask, not a trace of emotion is visible. Trained to kill,
he is ready to take any measure to prevent intruders from desecrating the
House of Justice.
A sentinel has some small wounds.

<1085/1085hp 604/670mana 161/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.
Niano's claw maims a sentinel!
Niano's claw devastates a sentinel.
A sentinel's pound misses Niano.

<1085/1085hp 564/670mana 169/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'Well thats no fun.'
Niano's claw maims a sentinel!
Niano's claw maims a sentinel!
Niano's claw devastates a sentinel!

<1085/1085hp 564/670mana 172/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano has turned around, trying to escape!
Niano has fled!

<1085/1085hp 564/670mana 172/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano sighs.


<1085/1085hp 633/670mana 220/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'Only a test of strength.'

<1085/1085hp 633/670mana 228/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'I would have let him live.'

<1085/1085hp 633/670mana 232/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
say Thy actions are senseless
You say, 'Thy actions are senseless.'


<1085/1085hp 608/670mana 248/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 568/670mana 254/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
c 'cure mortal' sent
c 'cure mortal' sent
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 528/670mana 259/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 488/670mana 263/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'Do not judge my actions kinsman.'

<1085/1085hp 488/670mana 263/285mv 209186tnl | NS>

Niano looks at you.

<1085/1085hp 488/670mana 263/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 426/670mana 285/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
c 'wh sta
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
You are granted the trust of a magnificent white stallion.
Your new steed kneels before you in waiting.

<1085/1085hp 326/670mana 285/285mv 209186tnl | NS>
mount
You pull yourself up onto a magnificent white stallion and mount him.

<1085/1085hp 317/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
sco
You are Teur the Father of Time
Race: elf         Sex: male   Age: 223 years old (mature)
You are a follower of Kiri-Jolith, Sword of Justice.
You are a lawful good cleric.

<1085/1085hp 268/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'He agreed to duel me in battle.'


<1085/1085hp 268/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'What does it matter.'

<1085/1085hp 268/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'Simple duel.'

<1085/1085hp 268/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
say Duelling ist not within his duties. He shouldeth stand on guard.
You say, 'Duelling ist not within his duties. He shouldeth stand on guard.'

<1085/1085hp 244/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
say If thou seekest duel, challenge some minotaur. Those art always ready.
You say, 'If thou seekest duel, challenge some minotaur. Those art always ready.'

<1085/1085hp 244/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 204/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
c 'cure mortal' sent
c 'cure mortal' sent

The sun rises in the east.

<1085/1085hp 265/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 225/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 185/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 145/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
lo sent
His face is iron mask, not a trace of emotion is visible. Trained to kill,
he is ready to take any measure to prevent intruders from desecrating the
House of Justice.
A sentinel has a few scratches.

<1085/1085hp 145/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You utter a prayer to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 105/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
c 'cure mortal' sent
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 65/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 25/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
lo sent

Niano says, 'Ah, but what better test of my ability than against those who mean to guard and protect.'

<1085/1085hp 25/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
His face is iron mask, not a trace of emotion is visible. Trained to kill,
he is ready to take any measure to prevent intruders from desecrating the
House of Justice.
A sentinel has a few scratches.

<1085/1085hp 25/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure critical' sent
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel's wounds begin to rapidly heal over.

<1085/1085hp 5/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'And a test of your own men. He needs to brush up on his skills.'

<1085/1085hp 5/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c bless sent
You utter a prayer to your deity.
You grant a sentinel the favor of your god.

<1085/1085hp 54/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'He won't stop a kender throwing a tantrum.'

<1085/1085hp 117/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
say His abilities are not questionable. He proven himself a lot of times. Begone. Don't offend Magistracy.
You say, 'His abilities are not questionable. He proven himself a lot of times. Begone. Don't offend Magistracy.'

<1085/1085hp 117/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
n
You ride a magnificent white stallion north.
In a Courtyard

[Exits: north east south west]
     A beautifully carved fountain gushes forth with sparkling water here.

<1085/1085hp 117/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | NESW>
dism
You dismount from a magnificent white stallion.

<1085/1085hp 32/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NESW>
e
Sleeping Quarters

[Exits: west]
A magnificent white stallion has arrived.

<1085/1085hp 32/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | W>
get rug backpack
drop rug
sleep rug
You get a coarsly woven rug from a leather backpack.

<1085/1085hp 32/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | W>
You drop a coarsly woven rug.

<1085/1085hp 32/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | W>
You go to sleep on a coarsly woven rug.


<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | W>

[GUARDIAN] Someone: Intruder! Niano is attacking the Hall of Justice! Punish the lawbreakers!

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | W>
wak
get rug
put rug backpack
You wake and stand up.

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | W>
You get a coarsly woven rug.

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | W>
You put a coarsly woven rug in a leather backpack.

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | W>
w
In a Courtyard

[Exits: north east south west]
     A beautifully carved fountain gushes forth with sparkling water here.
A magnificent white stallion has arrived.

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | NESW>
mount
s
You pull yourself up onto a magnificent white stallion and mount him.

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 284/285mv 209181tnl | NESW>
You ride a magnificent white stallion south.
By the Gate

[Exits: north south]
     The torn remains of a sentinel are here on a cross.
(Translucent) (Red Aura) Niano the male dark elf is here.
A strong sentinel is here protecting the House of Justice from intruders.
A sentinel says, 'Greetings, Magistrate of Justice.'

<1085/1085hp 422/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c sanctuary sent
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is surrounded by a white aura.

<1085/1085hp 362/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano peers intently north.

<1085/1085hp 362/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c bless sent
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel already has divine favor.

<1085/1085hp 357/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
lo sent
His face is iron mask, not a trace of emotion is visible. Trained to kill,
he is ready to take any measure to prevent intruders from desecrating the
House of Justice.
A sentinel has a few scratches.

<1085/1085hp 357/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'Perhaps then it is time he retires.'

<1085/1085hp 357/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 317/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You draw upon the powers granted by your god.
A sentinel is filled with strong restorative energy, as his wounds mend.

<1085/1085hp 277/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>

Niano says, 'You cannot boast his skill if I best him.'

<1085/1085hp 331/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
say As soon as younger one finisheth his training.
You say, 'As soon as younger one finisheth his training.'

<1085/1085hp 301/670mana 285/285mv 209181tnl | NS>
c 'cure mortal' sent
You utter a prayer to your deity.
Healing energy flows to a sentinel, but he is already in perfect health.


=======

Niano says, 'You expect that to occur soon?'

You say, 'So far old horse dost not spoil furrow. As my uncles said.'
You say, 'It wilst occur in time. Nonetheless.'

Niano says, 'Does he actually stop anyone but the youngest wanderers?'
Niano says, 'How can you afford to leave him at your gates?'

You say, 'His duty ist to warn others and take first blow, not to turn away intruders.'

Niano says, 'Seems to me he is to prevent intruders...'
Niano says, 'Seems to me also, that he fails.'

You say, 'Thou art wrong in defining his core responsibilities.'

Niano smirks.
Niano says, 'How quaint.'
Niano says, 'Just like one of your kind...'
Niano says, 'To put another in front of you to die first.'
Niano says, 'Murderers.'
Niano says, 'The lot of you.'

You say, 'He ist not to die. He takes first blow and is then rescued and protected by the rest.'

Niano says, 'Hardly often.'

You say, 'As often as other Magistrates are at guard.'

Niano laughs joyously.
Niano says, 'You are the first i've seen in a week.'

You say, 'That's a question not to me.'

Niano shrugs helplessly.
Niano says, 'Was a statement I thought, not a question.'

You say, 'Depends. But I am not in mood to go in sophistry now.'

Niano says, 'Why not?'

You say, 'Sith life ist now vanity of vanities...'

Niano sighs.
Niano says, 'Just like a priest...'

mood calm
You now have a calm mood.

Niano says, 'Send other to die...'
Niano says, 'I'll never understand it.'

You smile serenely and say, 'I already told thee thou art wrong. Seems thou dost not understand thy own flaws in logics.'

Niano says, 'You claim he is under the protection of you magistrates.'
Niano says, 'But he is poorly guarded.'
Niano says, 'Countless slay your sentinels at any given time.'
Niano says, 'Without so much as a word from a magistrate.'
Niano shrugs helplessly.

You say calmly, 'Who are thee to make judgement to quality of Magistracy service? Don't judge and thou shalst not be judged. Ancient wisdom still standeth.'

Niano says, 'But if he is willing to let you do such, then I guess death fits him.'
Niano says, 'Ancient wisdom indeed, ancient wisdom for ancient times.'

You smile serenely and say, 'It ist always true. All that ist new is old but well-forgotten.'

Niano says, 'When your kind actually stood for something good.'
Niano shakes his head negatively.
Niano says, 'Woe to this world that harbors murderers and thieves with open arms.'

You say calmly, 'Let me give thee a hint, young and unpatient one. If thou wishest to challenge thy strengthen, grow up and challenge me. In good time.'

Niano says, 'In time...well said. Aye, we will meet. I only hope that before I shed your blood, you will turn from your god, and allow me to leave you in peace.'

In a tranquil voice, you say, 'Never shall I turn from Him, who granteth me strength and valour, whose word I preach and faith in whom I breed in my heart.'

Niano says, 'I do not expect vindication from my kin...'
Niano says, 'Know you sing psalms to one who bathes in the blood of countless innocents.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'Reasons of thy exile are unknow to me, but elves are wise and thou shalst live to undestand it. One day thou shalst acknowledge thy fault.'

Niano says, 'Funny, I was about to tell you the same thing.'

You smile serenely and say, 'True commitment and devotion that goeth from pure heart and clean mind can not be wrong by definition.'

Niano says, 'Ah, but what defines a pure heart and clean mind.'
Niano says, 'A clean mind should be devoid of ignorance.'

In a tranquil voice, you say, 'Thou hath to feel it, feel and trust. And then thy faith shall guide thee through all perils and hardships.'
In a tranquil voice, you say, 'Thou strayest from path. But I trust thy soul ist not lost and one day thou shall see the way back.'

Niano says, 'I have faith indeed. Faith in myself, faith in those who fight with me.'
Niano says, 'The world will be saved.'
Niano says, 'Or it will perish entirely.'
Niano says, 'By our hand or its own.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice.'
You smile serenely and say, 'From what I tasted of desire, I am with those who favour fire.'
You say calmly, 'But if it had to perish twice, I'd say that for destruction ice.'
You say calmly, 'Is also great and would suffice.'

Niano says, 'To a land of killers, we deliver death in return.'
Niano says, 'Where I find the pure of heart, it continues to beat.'

In a tranquil voice, you say, 'But while our Gods are with us, world willst not perish. Know it, young one.'

Niano says, 'Know that your gods are with you only as long as you are with them.'
Niano says, 'They protect you only so long as you are their servant.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'My faith is strong and I will be with them forever, in life and in death. Servant but not a slave, like worshippers of Dark Mistress.'

Niano shrugs helplessly.
Niano says, 'By your words, you presume I am among them?'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'I hope not.'

<1085/1085hp 598/670mana 285/285mv 209176tnl | NS>
c 'know alignment' niano
You concentrate a moment and pray to your deity.
You feel that Niano is the embodiment of pure evil.
You feel that Niano abides by the law.

Niano says, 'Indeed...'
Niano says, 'No, I hate her as much as I hate your god...'

You say calmly, 'As I already said, I still trust thou canst be saved. Which could not be if thou already turnedest to Her.'

Niano says, 'It is sad, I hold them both on the same pedastal.'

In a tranquil voice, you say, 'Doubts and searchins art typical for youth.'
In a tranquil voice, you say, 'Wisdom of age is what thou still lack. Hopefully thy head ist bright enough to receive it as gift of time.'

Niano says, 'I know only that your god, along with the others are murderers.'
Niano says, 'They killed mercilessly, countless people with true faith in them died because of their actions.'
Niano says, 'How can you put your faith in them?'

You smile serenely and say, 'That knowledge ist but insinuation of Her who wanteth to turn thee from us.'
In a tranquil voice, you say, 'People with true faith died not because but for Them.'

Niano says, 'It does not draw me nearer to her. My ears and heart are shut to the gods.'
Niano says, 'That is easy for you to say now.'
Niano says, 'But you cannot speak for the dead.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'And it ist not Gods of Light who provoketh these bloody conflicts, but Dark Mistress in Her greedy desire for power.'
You smile serenely and say, 'It ist my God speaking through my lips, my faith, not me.'

Niano says, 'Perhaps she provoked it, but the gods of light were just as much at fault for the action.'

You say calmly, 'Wrong, they didst the utmost to stop it.'

Niano says, 'Maybe your Gods deceive you.'
Niano says, 'They sent one lone knight.'
Niano says, 'A man weakened beyond any in that world.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'Nay, I feel Him, I feel His help, His wisdom, His protection.'

Niano says, 'A jelous and weak willed man.'

You say calmly, 'Whom are thou talkin about?'


Niano says, 'Soth.'
Niano says, 'Soth was paladines answer.'
Niano says, 'A great and noble response indeed.'

You smile serenely and say, 'Soth fell prey to his own greed, pride and malice.'

Niano says, 'For the longest time i didn't believe the stories.'

In a tranquil voice, you say, 'He strove from his way, he turned away from Paladine.'

Niano says, 'I didn't believe that Paladine and Kiri Jolith and Mishakal could be involved in such a travesty against us, their people.'
Niano says, 'But i've seen the affects, they still linger...'
Niano says, 'I thought it was nothing more than a bedtime story.'
Niano says, 'An all too well known fairytale.'

Sounding relaxed, you say, 'Their deeds and reasons are not for thee to judge. Know that our Gods would gladly give their immortal lives for our happiness, prosperity and peace.'

Niano laughs joyously.

You smile serenely and say, 'Unlike Her, who seeketh power only for Herself.'

mood confident
You now have a confident mood.

Niano says, 'Then why did they cast pesitllence, famine, fire, war upon the world?'
Niano says, 'Upon the children, upon the wildlife, upon the creatures...?'

Looking very certain, you say, 'Dost not thou understand? It is people and their false faith who brought it all.'
You say fearlessly, 'Not Gods.'
Looking very certain, you say, 'People in their pride thought they could equal the Gods. But they were wrong.'

Niano says, 'It was the kingpriest and his ilk...'
Niano says, 'Why was it not him and his city struck...?'
Niano says, 'Why the world along with him.'

In a clear, confident voice you say, 'It was but the last drop in bowl of Their patience. We all are responsible for what happened. And only us.'

Niano says, 'Again, why was it not only Istar that suffered.'

You say boldly, 'And our sufferings art nothing compared with sufferings of Gods when people betrayed Them, Their creators.'

Niano says, 'THEY BETRAYED US!'

In a clear, confident voice you say, 'Wrong.'

Niano says, 'When they dropped a mountain on the world, they betrayed those who believed in them.'
Niano says, 'Elves died...'

You say boldly, 'Istar is only the head of iceberg.'

Niano says, 'And while we are not perfect.'
Niano says, 'There were those of true faith who perished.'

You say fearlessly, 'We, their beloved children, ran away from home and forgot our parents, we acted foolishly and deserved this punishment.'

Niano says, 'I had family who knew of the kingpriests fault, saw the error of his ways, saw the comming storm and begged mercy for the world.'

Looking very certain, you say, 'They were few and those who perished with faith in them were generously rewarded, don't doubt.'

Niano says, 'And they were burned to ash in the blind rage of your gods.'
Niano says, 'Good, evil, neutral, they're all killers.'
Niano says, 'And just because it hasn't happened since, doesn't mean they won't do it again.'

Looking very certain, you say, 'That was not rage, but Mercy that forceth them do it.'
You say fearlessly, 'Anger ist what lives in thy heart and dost not let thee understand it.'

Niano says, 'Mercy forced them to kill true believers?'
Niano says, 'Those of faith.'

In a clear, confident voice you say, 'Only when thou changest that anger for mercy and compassion thou shalst see the truth.'
You say fearlessly, 'It was but a necessary price for saving of the whole world.'

Niano says, 'How can I hold either in my heart for any who preach the word of such bloodstained killers.'
Niano says, 'Those who followed the kingpriest would have been set in place simply if istar had sunk into the sea.'
Niano says, 'But to unleash such a fury on the whole world?'

You say fearlessly, 'That, young one, thou shall realise when thou gainest wisdom. If of course thy anger wilst not lead thee to death before that. I shal pray for thee. Now, my duties call me. Fare thee well.'

[Quino]

Nice interaction but..

He cannot be a heretic wannabe since You feel that Niano abides by the law.
Also how damn he can attack a citadel of Justice if he respects it?

P.S. Pity you are still not hero, seems duties in cities are now heavy for so small amount of Guardians. *sighs*

[Niano]

A) If kender can be knight, and knight can be neutral, and kender can be guardian, I can be lawful heretic. Besides, people change. Just cause I follow laws right now, doesn't mean that won't change.
B) If you noticed the roleplay, I wasn't attacking the Halls of Justice. Just simple duel with sentinel. I even advised that you need to imrpove methods of training and get a younger sentinel, cause he wouldn't stop anyone.

[Nierth]

A) If kender can be knight, and knight can be neutral, and kender can be guardian, I can be lawful heretic. Besides, people change. Just cause I follow laws right now, doesn't mean that won't change.

Wrong way to prove your opinion.

Heretics Force has not need for those who obey law. Nothing should stay between them and their mission.

[Quino]

A sentinel's wounds begin to rapidly heal over.

Sirrion, Habbakuk, please apply changes for no-highlight also here..

[Ares]

Besides, people change. Just cause I follow laws right now, doesn't mean that won't change.

Agree here, I managed to get into Guardians with ethos 'neutral', for instance!

[Quino]

Yes, I remember but it was absolutely special case and it can't be applied to everybody. Everyone has to be sure he would or would not obey laws.
If you don't want to reroll a new character because you seek herecy powers and ethos interferes you.. hm, vain way.

However, I won't be surprised much if we see soon an outcast knight in Solamnia or necro is Warders or whatever.

[Niano]

Nierth, i'm not proving my opinion in this manner, trust me. This is true rp. See, this makes it actually realistic. People aren't born the way they will be forever. They change. Just because in my youth I obey the laws, doesn't mean something doesn't change the view that laws must be obeyed in the future.

[Nierth]

Yes, agree. The same goes with align..
But then you should prove in game that you spit on laws, Imm makes you chaotic and ~only~ after that you will be allowed to Herecy. IMHO

[Niano]

For instance. I am dark elf. I hate elves according to my proper rp, but mainly those of qualinesti origin, as thats where i'm from, and they are the ones who cast me out. But if I see a knight, or fighter, or priest, i'm not inclined to instant hate. I speak with them, try to reason with them to leave their god, ask why they follow god and such not, blah blah blah, and only attack them when they will not relent, or attack me. All about rp. But see, as dark elf, this is possible rp. Different if I was draconian or such. Ask almost anyone i've associated with. Tarius even. I'm a fairly reasonable person...