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Author Topic: Comparing Items  (Read 19151 times)
Tanis Half-Elven
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« on: February 23, 2008, 06:57:26 am »

Please post here if you notice a definite problem when using the 'compare' command between two items.

Example:
You are carrying:
     (Glowing) (Humming) a suit of elysium battle armor
     (Glowing) the tight-looking scales of Tiamat

comp elysium tiamat
A suit of elysium battle armor looks worse than the tight-looking scales of Tiamat.



As most of you know: Elysium battle armor is WAY better than scales of Tiamat.

Please report these problems here. This is especially important with low level items.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 07:41:03 am by Tanis Half-Elven » Logged
Kage
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 07:05:58 am »

- what is the criteria for comparing armor?  Isnt it AC? which way not indicate the armor is better but compares as better.
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deda
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2008, 07:11:05 am »

the criteria is hp.
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Kage
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2008, 07:13:00 am »

- then the criteria is the problem not the compare code I think.  So by that standard the tiamat scales are better ,  but not really to any sane person.
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Tanis Half-Elven
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2008, 07:33:30 am »

Please don't create huge discussions here. The point is that some items are CLEARLY better than others, but when using compare command, it doesnt work properly. If you see items such as that, please report it.

As for the criteria: It's not directly from code, compare is based on the level of the item. Therefore I can easily fix the compare command without making any noticable changes to item stats.

Thanks for the help!

P.S. Everyone can have different opinions about the usefulness of an item. If someone posts a wrong compare here, please don't mention about it, I will surely be checking everything before I make changes.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 07:38:11 am by Tanis Half-Elven » Logged
Tanis Half-Elven
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 01:55:17 am »

Please give me your opinion on some stats:

Item #1:
Armor class bonus: 8 vs pierce, 8 vs bash, 8 vs slash, and 5 vs magic.
   modifies will save by 5
   modifies armor class by -8
   modifies health regeneration by 1
   modifies health by 40

Item #2:
Armor class bonus: 5 vs pierce, 5 vs bash, 5 vs slash, and 5 vs magic.
   modifies will save by 3
   modifies reflex save by 3
   modifies damage roll by 3
   modifies hit roll by 2
   modifies armor class by -9
   modifies health by 15
   modifies mana by 15

Item #3:
Armor class bonus: 10 vs pierce, 10 vs bash, 10 vs slash, and 10 vs magic.
   modifies resistance to negative by 7
   modifies resistance to cold by 7
   modifies fortitude save by 3
   modifies reflex save by 3
   modifies resistance to air by 10
   modifies mana by 30
   modifies health by 30

Item #4:
Armor class bonus: 13 vs pierce, 13 vs bash, 13 vs slash, and 13 vs magic.
   modifies spellpower by 2    *(<--- increases level of your spells by 2)
   modifies mana by 50


If you feel up to it, please just reply here with order from BEST ITEM to WORST ITEM of the three.
If other people post their opinion, please don't comment on theirs.
Thanks for you help!

**Edit.... I added item #4.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:15:10 am by Tanis Half-Elven » Logged
deda
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 02:00:18 am »

2, 3, 1, 4

« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:06:23 am by deda » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 02:53:47 am »

It depends a lot of the classes, but I would prefer to use the following:
If I were a spellcaster class: 4>1>3>2.
If I were a fighter-like class: 1>2>3>4.
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2008, 02:58:13 am »

312
(4 would put in hands of Valgarik Grin)

ps compare cannot replace identify spell
classes w/o identify should not be able to get insight in items value
compare<lore<ident
lore inacurate => compare uber inaccurate => why worry about details?
keeping only for weapons makes sense

with best regards Smiley
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:28:22 am by disk_boot_failure » Logged
Tanis Half-Elven
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2008, 05:04:54 am »

312
(4 would put in hands of Valgarik Grin)

ps compare cannot replace identify spell
classes w/o identify should not be able to get insight in items value
compare<lore<ident
lore inacurate => compare uber inaccurate => why worry about details?
keeping only for weapons makes sense

with best regards Smiley

Yeah you're right, we don't want compare to be perfect. But response from Argonar shows that compare NEVER will be perfect, because every class will need different items.
So... why do I want to worry about compare command?
Because some new players will find this basic thing very useful. Comparing 'a pair of metal leggings' with 'a skirt of linked iron chains' is a very good thing. It will tell newbie (who may not even have the identify spell yet!) generally what he/she should wear. So, easiest way for me to fix these compare problems is to make formula for myself, but I'm still working out how to evaluate certain item stats.

P.S. I won't be changing anything on comparing weapons. Currently weapon comparing is entirely based upon the "average" damage of the weapon from the damage dice.
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omledufromage
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2008, 05:34:25 am »

Why not make compare explicitly something based on the monetary value of the item?
Makes sense... cause the first thing people often try to notice when comparing things is which is most expensive and which is trash.
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Daekrist
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2008, 06:00:48 am »

compare NEVER will be perfect, because every class will need different items.

You can make compare a bit more complicated, just make some table with stat "weights" for every class in the game Smiley So damroll will worth something for warriorlikes and nothing for spellcasters. Also you can make every iteration of "compare" say something random like:
"You compare bracer1 and bracer2.
bracer1 protects from magic better than bracer2."
"You compare bracer 1 and bracer2.
bracer2 enhances your melee damage better than bracer1."
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:02:32 am by Daekrist » Logged
Kage
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2008, 06:33:12 am »

- 2,1,3,4

semi-related - I think lore should have the chance to show where the items is from or chance to reveal mob name who originally holds it, since it is not useful for analysis of stats.  Makes more sense anway..lore is like knowledge passed on from experience.
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Genocide
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2008, 08:19:04 am »

create a mob who would id items for gold ?

say 'identify armor'
from the info of the mob you found out:
stats

some discounts for <10 rank chars or free
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Matthew
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2008, 12:48:15 pm »

Lets assume compare is for newbies, newbies rarely have proper eq at low levels. Compare needs only be able to compare newbie items that newbies can and do get easily and the odd exception that a newbie picks up somewhere. So really it only needs to worry about if an item has saves, and high hps. Lots of newbies come from muds where if your not covered in +damage your wrong, or from WOW where if your not wearing as much +damage as possible your dead. If your a newbie you need to be told saves eq is better than most other eq, hps eq is better than non saves eq and lastly damage eq is better than non saves/hps eq... lore and identify are for everything else. If a newbie picks up 'the tight fitting scales of Tiamat' or 'suit of elysium battlearmor' newbie is going to lose it soon anyway.

But my opinion on your list - 2314
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 01:26:04 pm »

3214

wait, forgot to mention if they are in the same slot.
i.e. some items are way better at one slot and much worse in another slot.

like - it's hard to find good leggings (for example) - so I'd prefer #2 over #3, but in the same time, if I have to choose between necklaces (another example) #3 and #2 <-- 3 is much better

and yes, order of items differs with class using them, indeed
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 01:31:31 pm by Quino » Logged

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Genocide
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 02:56:33 pm »

Quino is right. Depends on slot and class completle.
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Kage
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 05:28:57 pm »

- I like gencides idea.  City Mob who identifies items for you...some gnome with a machine so heretics can use it too ..heh.
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deda
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 08:35:57 pm »

No machines... A wise old man named Kain... and a small fountain near... Grin
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gejlord1
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2008, 08:38:51 pm »

No machines... A wise old man named Kain... and a small fountain near... Grin

 Roll Eyes
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