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1  Solace II / Ideas / Immortal powers on: August 30, 2004, 02:47:04 pm
There were some cases (see unofficial forum, solace.allnetwork.ru) when one of Unseen Gods did something disgusting with mortals... I do not mean denies and other punishments where immortals at least explained why are they doing it, I mean cases when immortals behaved like the small children with very specific sence of humour.
For example, in the May of 2002 I (Maerryji) decided to fight with one of the creatures (have no log, sorry). Creature was strong, but when I (was blinded) tried to retreat, I failed. What has happened? Someone closed the only door leading from the room, and I did not notice it. When I uderstood that, I have opened the door but it closed again.
This repeated a few times, but finally I fled. And saw that

An Unseen God closes the <door name>.

Funny, isn't it?

Yes, I agree that to prevent player cheating and other likely thing Immortals should have an ability to cloak theirselves. But I offer to rewrite it slightly and make most of actions which may be used to offend players automatically revealing them, or something like that. Let Unseen Gods watch players, talk to them, and let players know who is making their life harder. So Immortals will bear responsibility for all what they do.
This will probably decrease the number of unpleasant cases, and surely there will be much less dirt and bitching on Immortals (Immortals in general, I mean) on forums.
2  Solace II / Ideas / Affects and resistances on: August 30, 2004, 02:20:35 pm
Most of times I use 'affects' command I do it to check affects, and pay no attention to resistances. Most of times I turn 'verbose' on to check my resistances I do not need to know affects.
Maybe make a different command, 'resists' or something like that?
3  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:Solace is *not* closing on: August 30, 2004, 12:17:58 pm
Chemosh will turn him into lich.
In RL.
4  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:IMPORTANT: Some final words. on: August 28, 2004, 07:21:07 pm
I can tell you the way for Immortals to check if character's RP is proper. So noone will curse them. Character should have a time to explain his role briefly. After this - explain his actions if he did something wrong... Explain how it is fitting his role.
Of course, role should not contradict to the race/class/alignment/ethos and description. Once it does, character may be denied, or punished any other way. But I do not think it is correct to tell "This is bulls**t" before you have asked about role.
5  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:Who ruins Solace? on: August 28, 2004, 07:00:31 pm
Did I complain? No, I've just repeated your own words and made conclusion. Anyway, soon we all will go to other MUDs, but I do not think Chemosh meant only players when he said that "he cannot leave us even for a week".
6  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:Who ruins Solace? on: August 28, 2004, 06:29:44 pm
Kiri-Jolith, if you wish to tell that "It is my game and go to hell with your opinion", why did you implement the forum, may I wonder?
Predicting your probable answer - I am not constant cheater, I am not insulting immortals permanently.
I always thought that basic principle any game is built on is that players should have fun.
In our case, I agree you also should be considered as players in some sence, so not only fun for mortal players should be considered.
But if you understand that your team makes playing mortals unpleasant, why do you still call it game?
This is something which reminds me politics and politicians... Any of politicians tells he works for people, but noone will ever agree to become one of the people he works for, that's what I meant.
7  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:Who ruins Solace? on: August 28, 2004, 05:45:50 pm
Considering myself as HC player, I completely agree that our respect to immortals mostly depends not on their coding efforts, areas they've written and spelling mistakes they've fixed. Indeed, if there was an immortal who has torn us all onto pieces by his mortal character (not the character equipped and trained by immortal powers), we'd respect him by default, and he also would understand us more easily.
Maybe, it is wrong. Maybe, it is snobism. But if Immortals prefer to solve the problem, removing us all, it may mean only one thing. They do not have enough respect to us by default. If one of the main gods tells us about immortal interfering into game that "that's why I never play mortal scum", doesn't it mean there is something wrong with their Immortal crew and its aims?
8  Solace II / Common Discussions / Re:I am really sad Solace is dying on: August 28, 2004, 04:08:46 pm
Thank you for being with us, and thank you for being the deity who liked chaotical behaviour...
You have asked me to spread my wisdom across my country, but I preferred to share it with other members of the forum. And if it is possible for you to read 7k size post, I will be glad to hear your opinion.
9  Solace II / Common Discussions / Who ruins Solace? on: August 28, 2004, 03:53:59 pm
This is very large post and if you do not want to read it, of course you do not have to. But if you feel tired by the pointless quarrel on the edge of Solace existance, you are welcomed. No insults here, though some critics against some of you.

There are two opposite points of view. I cannot quote, but there was Majere who told that Kiri-Jolith is doing pretty much for Solace and this surely gives him a right to take some decisions about skills working and common rules, and there was Someone not special (SNS) who told that Kiri has completely ruined the game.
I understand both points, and cannot completely agree with any. But Majere's point is more obvious and I think needs no special comments, while all SNS and Company's attemts to explain their point sounds for Immortals like insults... So I will take this point of view, and defend as if it was mine. I am going to explain you why some of the high classed players think that Kiri-Jolith ruins the game, while he is obviously working on code hard and positive results are also obvious.

First, I will explain my understanding of terms 'newbie', 'average player', and 'high classed player'.
Primitive definitions of newbie as 'player who has played less then N months' seem wrong to me. Newbie is a player with very obvious behaviour peculiarities, and, taking me as an example, I was newbie for 1.5 years of playing, while some of players easily leave that stage in 5 months.
Playing skill consists of three parts - role, PK skills and knowledge. And player stops being newbie once he feels his power in at least one of these domains. The most common way - feel your the power in PK. Once your character kills a team of three characters of the same rank, you will not tell anyone 'Of course, you have killed me because you are 4 ranks higher' ever since - the words of newbie. Because you start respecting yourself.
This was my way, too, and I think many of you remember the heavy hammer of 23 ranked draconian cleric of Takhisis named Sart. But there are other ways. You may be one of the weakest killers, but once you will talk to God who has a mood to listen and prove you are the master of your role, not just another bard, but the bard who writes own songs for example, and get rewarded by this God - of course, you will stop being newbie, too.
High classed players do not have to be perfect in all three domains, but of course noone will call high classed a player without a role, or a player who knows only 5 areas, or a player who does not know how to kill.
My path, since I was satisfied by my strength, stopped being common. I did not have noticeable clan characters, neither I had heroes. My role remained at average level. But my knowledges were growing more and more, I mean the knowledges of useful abilities of different classes, of helpful little things across the world. I was collecting features, and I have started to invent tricks.
Some of features me and other players with high knowledges were using could even seem to be the bugs, but usually they weren't. Not because we are so fair, but because the more benefits doubtful feature gives, the more chances you will be denied for using it... But small features were always safe and nice.
Let me give you an example. I have invented the way which let me master skill riding from 1% in... ten minutes. (Come with your donkey to the river, mount, attack someone, put boat into sack, spam 'flee' - each flee command leads to 2-6 attempts to move away). Is it bug? Probably yes, but - it is very hard to invent, it saves not so much time (20-30 minutes maybe), and one practice session I saved gives me... maximum 2 hit points. Bug? No, just a feature, and no need to rewrite code or forbid, that's for sure.
This is my point of view.
Let us return to the main point of discussion. I remind you I am trying to defend people who tell that Kiri-Jolith ruins the game, not offend KJ himself (if you see the difference).
What (and why) did Kiri-Jolith, except skills he wrote? (For high-classed players, there is no difference what skills they have. If they are going to make Mighty World Ruling Character, they can easily choose the class which seems to be most powerful at present. Or will be most powerful combined with features they know. Or it will be most powerful if he will be travelling with character their OOC friend is going to play.)
1. He has fixed the code. Many of features were closed. He has different opinion about features and bugs... So let it be. This does not ruin game yet.
2. No more mastering skills from 1%. Absolutely pointless fix. Even the most stubborn mage won't get over than 5-6 training sessions from it, after he will spend 100 more hours mastering. 100 mana points for Tower mage, who likes to train mana, not health. As you can see, it did not improve high-classed players much, but they liked it, and KJ got it away.
There was some else points, but I think it is enough.
My conclusions:
KJ and others were trying to make Solace more newbie-friendly, to attract more players. Sounds good, but not when they steal our favorite toys... And it did not help. Newbies are newbies, still. One high-classed player usually can destroy three or four easily. Seems Immortals did not like the results, and simultaneously HC players did not like what Immortals have already done. Conflict was growing.
Immortals started balancing classes (just imagine what is it like - to lose some of abilities which make you powerful in the middle of nice and glorious life). And... skipping few steps (when old players already told what they think in their usual harsh self-assured manner)... just harming some of HC players which were on the top. Naimetuk, Laeran... Some others...
Their new manner was - we know enough about your mistakes and could deny you already, but we will just make your life harder instead. No need to explain it is wrong. No need to explain that being denied for proper reason, HC player would make new character, and it will be great again. But that was not what Immortals wanted, because they still dreamed about MUD where chances are equal. And their actions remind me equalization program described by Kurt Vonnegut (If one of us is deaf, we make all others deaf, too).
Immortals now prefer not to see HC players at all - this conclusion some of these players did.
The conflict escalated, and you all know the results.

You should not blame HC players with dirty mouthes. They felt harmed, and they swore. They were insulted, and they insulted, too.
You should not blame immortals. "Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда".

I am sure that all who have cried 'Chemosh, ban these idiots who dare to lose respect and let us play, we are good, white, and soft' are NOT high-classed players. Sorry, guys, if you were, you'd know that Kiri-Jolith's efforts are not totally nice. Just one example: if you were playing at good level, you'd not praise KJ for fixing all crush bugs, because now this is ten times harder to find gold lettered spellbook and other books of this value...

Yes, maybe, one day Solace will be available again. There will be no more HC players, but some time later some of you will leave your average level and become higher... And maybe some of you will understand what did we feel last months.

My draconian soul makes me say that I wish you to feel the same.
10  Solace II / Common Discussions / Why did you delete my message? on: August 28, 2004, 03:45:12 pm
I did not insult you. I did not tell you have to leave... It's not my blame Teilli's answer remind you about your administrative mistakes, main point of my post was different. But I bet you didn't even read it before deleting.
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