Well now....

Please allow me to retort, and rest assured it will be my last.  An Imm, who should already be sick of me, actually asked for input.  That is why I have offerred it.  I am not telling anyone how to do thier jobs.  As referenced above, I am the RP and rules enforcer on another mud.  I posted what I have so far as suggestions for those who want to add RP to what could be a great mud, as some of your players seem to want to.  Those are things we do on our mud, which is in the top 100 on Mudconnector.  I suppose we're doing something right.  Any suggestions I have given were given in a geniune desire to help, and with no malicious intent.  The Imm I've talked to should also attest to that as well.  I'm not giving the name of that Imm, because the majority of the staff and players of this mud appear to prefer the status quo, and I don't want to bring trouble to that player.

Now, as I said, this will be my last post here.  Also, as I said, it would appear to me that the majority of people here prefer the PK mud you guys have.  I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing.  I, however, prefer a mud where RP is primary, and PK is a part of that RP.  I will say that you guys have one of the best coded PK muds I've ever seen, and you definately have more areas than most PK muds do.  And, if you ever get the PK under some semblance of control, I think you will be one of the best muds out there. 

I came here because our mud was down for some server maintenence, and it was dragging on.  I prefer Krynn, and have been looking for a good Krynn mud nearly as long as I've been mudding.  Most of the Krynn based muds I have found were ok, but not really great.  Either the areas were all stock, or the races and classes were hosed, or the skills and spells.  You guys have all of those issues fixed.  Were it not for the mindless PK, this would, in my opinion, be a great mud.  When I saw that you were RP enforced on Mudconnector, I decided to give you a shot.  As has been said, you are not RP enforced, and it is hard to find any RP at all, because everyone is too worried about being PK'd on sight. 

On a positive note, there are a few players that have shown me they are here for RP, and do it well.  Solan, Serril, Hadin and Sharlise are great.  I would welcome players like them to my mud anytime, and not worry that they would become problems.  There may be others, but they were obviously too worried that I would blindly kill them that I never got a chance to find out.

So, for any who care to listen, my final words of advice if want things to change are:

1. Get the PK under control.  This falls directly to the Imms.  You have to be here, and be involved if you want it to change.  Also, the wanton PK has gotten to the point where it is the norm.  You will lose some players in gaining control.  But, in the long run, you will gain more players, and the ones you get will be better.
2. Continue everything else you are doing.  Other than rampant, mindless PK, this is a great mud.  Continue building new, original areas.  I have noticed that Kiri-Jolith is extremely responsive.  That's great, and as it should be.

If you like things as they are, fine.  It's your mud, and you need to do what makes you happy here.  And, after this, you will no longer be burdened by me, trying to tell the Imms what to do.  Be well, all of you, and best of luck, however you decide.

Here's a suggestion for those who are trying to bring the RP back.  Change the section of your forum page that is for FIGHT logs, to RP logs, and character stories.  That way, you are not highlighting people for PK, but for RP.  Just an idea.

As always, feel free to reply.

Allow me to clarify a bit.  If a thief is acting for themself, in accordance with thier normal conduct, they can steal anything anyone allows them to.  They are thieves, after all, and thieves steal.  The only problem I had is when it was sounded like it was being done for OOC reasons.  If you don't want your stuff stolen, protect it.  There are ways to ensure you are never stolen from, as long as you are awake and alive.  If you get blackjacked, there isn't much you can do.  Again, as long as it is done for IC reasons, great.  Saying a thief can't use thier abilities is like telling a mage not to cast.  Or a cleric not to pray.  But, EVERYTHING your character does, should be done IC, and in the context of THAT character.  So, if you kill someone, the character (not the player) you are attacking with should have a reason.  if a thief steals your gold, that's how they earn thier living.  Protect your gold, and you won't have that problem.  

Now, I say if you are a thief, feel free to steal.  Full looting someone is not what I have in mind.  There is HARDLY EVER a reason to full loot someone.  Even for a thief.  Take a couple of choice items, and leave them the rest.  And, if you are the one attacking, autoloot isn't an excuse, either.  Any PK you commit should have been roleplayed for, and planned.  Therefore, you should have turned off autoloot, knowing you were going to attempt a PK.  If you are attacked, put most of it back.  All looting does is piss off the player, as I'm sure everyone in this mud knows well.

That's it for this one.  As always, feel free to reply.

I say anyone over level 10 should be able to join a clan.  But, only characters who demonstrate consistant, high quality, RP should be allowed to join any clan.  That way, you encourage RP by lowbies, and weed out those who only want it to be better able to PK.

As always, feel free to reply.

Zondra,

I never said that it is wrong for a thief to steal.  You're right, that's what they do.  But, if you are using your thief to avenge things that happen to other characters of yours, it is wrong.  That is what you said you are doing, and what I was referring to.  Like I said, if you are using one of your characters to help another, it's wrong.  If you are playing a thief, as a thief, go for it.  People should protect thier gear better.  That's what I meant.  I hope this is more clear.

As I was writing this, Grim posted his reply.  I agree completely with what he said.  Your skillset, and "profession" are only a part of your character.  You should also have a life outside your "job", as most of us do in the real world. 

On a happier note, I was in the square for like 10-15 minutes last night, and nobody died!  RP actually happenned, with (3) of us in PK range in the same room!  It was amazing.  Maybe this is the start of something....

As always, feel free to reply.

Zondra,

The fact that you use one of your characters to "get back at people you don't like" tells me that RP has no place in your mudding, and you are a part of the problem here.  One key for RP is that you must separate what each of your characters knows.  So, if your knight, cleric, whatever is killed, your thief CAN NOT KNOW.  Your characters can not even know that each other exists, and can do NOTHING to help the others.  That is what most of us call multiplaying, and will get you deleted on any decent mud that enforces RP.  Sorry for the directness, but it's true.

As always, feel free to reply.

[First: Deities Need to be Visible.]

Hey all.  As all who read my other post know, I'm a newbie here.  I am, however, the RP lead on the mud Kylie mentioned.  I must say I completely agree with everything she said.  We have been close friends, and mudding together for over seven years.  From the experiences we've had, we built the mud we run.  The only reason I'm still here is that Krynn is by far my favorite D&D world, and ours is loosely based on the Forgotten Realms.  I agree that your code is awesome.  You have a lot of things that I've never seen in a ROM mud.  However, the code is not enough to override the frustration of mindless PK.  In talking to my friend about this post, I was told you seek suggestions.  Below I will list a few of the things we have implemented that help us maintain control.  This one is long.  You have been warned.  

First:  Deities Need to be Visible.

Why, you ask.  We have a policy that all of our deities are to remain visible to the players, unless there is a specific reason for them not to be.  That way, the players know we are there, and may be watching.  Also, when something does happen, they can tell us about it when it happens.  Also, when they don't see you all of a sudden, they think you are up to something.  It helps to keep them on thier toes.

Second: Rules need to be established, and more importantly, enforced.

From reading your help files, you have established the rules that govern how you want the mud to run.  Unlike another of the posters here, I think your help files are great.  But, it was a waste of time for whoever implemented them, if nobody enforces them.  The PK rules are the most important ones to enforce.  I can tell you from experience that great code will only get you so far.  If your players are here for the RP, they will not tolerate mindless PK, and will leave.  PK, when roleplayed properly, is awesome.  But, when you work to build a living, breathing character, and they are killed and looted for no apparent reason, it tends to piss you off.  Looting is another aspect of PK.  As Kylie mentioned, there should be a limit on the items you can take from a corpse, and you should ONLY take items from a corpse YOU killed.  Again, in my experience, you don't even need or want the gear you are looting.  All you are doing, intentionally or not, is making it hard for the player of that character, and pissing off the player.  Again, players who are in for the RP will not tolerate this happenning too many times.  This also goes back to the deities being visible to the players.  If the deities are vis, a player wronged in this fashion can be dealt with immedeately, not when a deity happens to check thier notes.

Third: Enforce RP

As Kylie mentioned, while you claim to be a RP enforced mud, in two weeks, I have only managed one RP.  From what I have seen, the people who are in your PK range dissappear as soon as you enter town, and you can't stay in town for fear of being PK'd.  Unless you live in a Drow city, this type of paranoia shold not be necessary.  There should never be a PK that wasn't roleplayed out beforehand.  What I mean is: you should never PK someone without a reason.  And, "I felt like it," or "I was bored," or any of these other, pointless reasons are excuses, not reasons.  Bring some semblance of reality to it.  Would you walk down the street, see someone, and randomly attack them?  If you would, you should be locked up.  Why is it any different for your character?  I"ve read a ton of fantasy adventure novels.  I have yet to see anyone act like that, unless they were in a declared war.  There should ALWAYS be RP to justify a PK.  The only time the person being PK'd should not know the reason, is when a contract has been made with an assassin for that person to die.  And, assassins should not be randomly assassinating people.  Looking at things with any sort of realism, people finding out that you're an assassin is bad.  Now, I know that when you group, you can see thier class.  I'll talk about that in a bit.  On this point, assassins should only be actually assassinating when they are under a contract, which was RP'd with a client.  That is the RP that should go along with this type of PK.  We actually have a note board, and assassins have to post thier contract info, and wait three days, real time, to carry out the hit.  

You will find that your players, who are here for the right reasons will help you enforce the rules and RP, once you get them established.  The ones who are here for the wrong reasons will be weeded out by the players, and by the deities when the other players report them.

Fourth: Keep OOC info OOC

On this mud, any info that doesn't come over the OOC channel seems to be IC, and usuable in game.  Again, you need to bring some semblance of realism to it.  How can someone in New Thalos tell I'm a Dark Elf, when I'm in Palanthas, and we've never met?  If you haven't implemented psionics, (which I have yet to see if you have) how can you talk to someone who is across the game world?  How does grouping with someone automatically tell me what your profession is, and what level you are?  These are things that should be discovered through RP.  I play an assassin on our mud.  I have had several people tell me it took them forever to figure out what I was.  That's how it should be.  I worked very hard to keep what I did a secret.  Only the handful of trusted people I've told IC, know IC.  You should not know what race someone is, until you actually look at them.  It just isn't possible to do otherwise, unless you are psychic, or using magic, (which again, I have yet to see a spell that would allow this).  

As I said, this one is long.  Most of the regulars at this mud who are reading this prolly think I must be the biggest jerk in the mud community if I really act like I say I do.  When it comes to mindless PK, I am.  If you guys were to implement a strict set of rules, there will be some growing pains.  Some of your players will complain.  But, in the end, when things are working like they should, by and large, the players who want to RP will be happier, and the others will move on.  Then, as word spreads, you will attract more players, and the players you get will be of better quality, and your mud wil continue to improve.  When I say better quality, I mean willing to put more effort into RP.  If that offends you, you are the type that would leave my mud.  You need to make RP the focus, not PK, as it seems to be now.  To do that, you need to tighten up on the rules, and deal firmly with people who commit mindless PK.  The rest will come into line.

That's it for this one.  As will always be the case, feel free to reply.

He he.  I suppose you could at that.  Thanks everyone who has replied.  I have a better idea now.  Thanks again!

Hello.  As the subject states, I am a newbie here, and have a question.  Today I had someone comment on my desc, so I went in again and re-read the help file on them.  One of the first things in there is that you should have your personality, fatih and a bunch of other things there.  My question is, how can someone tell anything about you, other than what you look like, by only looking at you?  I wasn't told to fix my desc, but was told it wasn't very unique.  I tried to play it off, saying that average was best for now, but OOC I'm kinda confused.  Thanks to any who can shed some light on this for me.