the flipside is that outcasts don't really need any more power on low-mid ranks, perhaps these proposed new skills could be higher up, hmm? (perhaps its just that I tend to die to outcasts when we meet, which isn't often since I don't play much)

 as for the thing about enemies you can't see, a lot of people have that problem... next thing you know the rangers and fighters are going to be asking for a  "faerie fart" skill or somesuch and hide and invisibility will be almost useless.

 Ohyeah, what has happened to all the nice outcast manuals... are they still around and just ridiculously hard to get? (There WERE nice outcast manuals, weren't there?)

I suppose you could tattoo your life story onto your face if you really wanted to

I just had an idea for a feat for fighters (maybe rangers and paladins too)
"physician"
Through extensive training in battlefield treatment and medicine,
you have brought your ability to apply first aid to a level far beyond
your fellow warriors. You may now use the bandage ability without
delays inbetween uses (ie: no 4 hour lag).

On the other hand, are you really "good" if you slaughter people just for being a dwarf, and the answer is no. Therefor, you would have to be at best neutral. Being good isn't just some magical shiny hat you get for being an elf, certainly, and is hatred of dwarves a "good" thing?

 As to the templar question, whether or not they thought they were good, they were doing evil things. If are what you do and what you intend to do, or atleast as far as this world goes. Thus templars, for the most part, were to a degree on the evil side of the coin rather than the one with the fluffy wings as fringe benifits.

Perhaps immortal leaders should remain hiden for chaos since it is alot more like an actual institution were they don't have a magical set of scales at the front to figure out if people are good or evil.

On the other hand, it comes down to this: What is GOOD in solace? Is it merely the light itself? The action of doing good, helping others, offering mercy, being kind, a practical man trying to dispose of those who stand in the way of their ideal world, intention or objective action?
 Etc.... very hard to judge even in the simplest of worlds :S (and solace doesn't seem to be)

I assume you are talking about the bison ranger + minotaur
+ barkskin + eq + (trophy belt if in heretics) thingy,
I guess that is unbalanced, but... it is had to do and then any nimrod can go and get a nightmare blade at the very least by that point, or a shocking mace or somesuch, and completely ignore all the benifits of all these class features. However, It is completely lethal for assassins and alteration transmuters I guess, but neither of these groups has fared particularily well, or atleast by this point in their lives (assassins fade out at high ranks, don't they?) so it kindoff becomes a moot point...

also, rangers are supposed to be stronger in the forest, weaker outside, to a degree. But not ridiculously so, its more a question of most of their combat skills drawing themselves from the wild is it not?

Actually, I like that too...

what I should have said was that it was bad if they were immitating admins
ie: asking to check eq for problems
then thats bad because no-one knows, it might just be a low-level immortal who doesn't have that command that creates thingies yet,
but does have smite... (cowers from rain of lightning bolts and extreme health-halving pain )

Its not a roleplay rule
its a rule
like "Thow shalt not abuse bugs"
roleplay wise, its fine

but they cannot have people impersonating unseen gods because its like the people who impersonate credit card companies to get your personal information, they are pretending to be a god on OOC pretenses, such as searching for glitched eq, it is a bad thing, because it is no longer a roleplay matter it is a system admin type matter

Well... Atleast you didn't paint "We're with stupid" on the back of your armour . You did seem damn suspicious...  as for why I didn't camo or blend, A) I'm a druid, and you don't regen very fast in greater wolf (no fast heal), and otherwise I don't have camo or blend B) I was tired and bored and on a quest for money, not remembering that trolls have virtually none anyway and frustrated that I still have almost the amount that I started with and ... I'm about as quick as a brick...

Still, it wa good work, and although I didn't intend for you to be complemented... it is damn funny in hindsight. Anyway, the crazy copper dragon sitting in the entryway to pax avenged me (didn't it?)  

In case the end of that message didn't make any sense: Who?
please?
it really bothers me getting killed without knowing who...

<216/402hp 346/352mp 216/223mv 111678tnl ex:NSW> A bloody part of the Dead Forest
  The ground here is covered in sticky green ichor and scaly bits of flesh.
The smell of putrid waste and wafts in the air, mixing in with the stench
of dead foliage and carrion matter.

[Exits: north east]

<216/402hp 346/352mp 213/223mv 111678tnl ex:NE> slee
You go to sleep.

<216/402hp 346/352mp 217/223mv 111678tnl ex:NE> sav
Saving. Remember that Solace has automatic saving.

<216/402hp 346/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:NE>

<319/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:NE>
Agonizing pain claws at your eyes, and you feel them roll back.

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
You choke back nausea, fighting off the poisonous taint.
<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
You choke back nausea, fighting off the poisonous taint.

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!> flee
In your dreams, or what?

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!> wak

You feel very sick.
You can't wake up!

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!> wak
You can't wake up!

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!> wak
You can't wake up!

<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!> wak
You can't wake up!
<385/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
You shiver and suffer.

<383/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
You scream in agony as plague sores erupt from your skin.

<383/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
You feel unclean.

<383/402hp 352/352mp 223/223mv 111678tnl ex:You are blinded!>
Someone fades into existence.
Someone's bash misses you.
Someone has a few scratches.

<383hp 352m 223mv ex:You are blinded!>
< T: Kaien TC: a few scratches E: someone EC: >
< >  
Someone's cleave DISEMBOWELS you!
Someone's acidic bite MUTILATES you!
Someone's cleave MUTILATES you!
Someone fades into existence.
You parry someone's slice.
Your crush misses someone.
Someone's slice DISEMBOWELS you!
Someone's slash misses you.
Someone's slash devastates you!
Someone's slice DISEMBOWELS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Someone has a few scratches.

<90hp 352m 223mv ex:You are blinded!>
< T: Kaien TC: writhing E: someone EC: >
< >  flee
You turn around, trying to escape!
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!
You lost 10 exp.

<90/402hp 352/352mp 220/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!> c 'greater wolf form'
You source energy from the surrounding forest.
You lost your concentration.

<90/402hp 327/352mp 220/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!> e
c 'greater wolf form'

Alas, you cannot go that way.

<90/402hp 327/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!> You source energy from the surrounding forest.
Your body undergoes a fluid transformation into a savage grey wolf.

<90/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!> Someone has arrived.
Someone has arrived.

<90/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!> camo
You attempt to blend in with your surroundings.

<90/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!>
Someone leaves north.
Someone leaves north.

<90/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!>
Someone has arrived.
Someone has arrived.

<90/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111688tnl ex:You are blinded!>
Someone conjures a shower of stones!
You make some noise as you are attacked.
Someone's pummeling stone shower MASSACRES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You turn around, trying to escape!
You step out from your cover.
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!
You lost 10 exp.
Small bits of earth and rock rain from above!

<11/402hp 277/352mp 220/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!> flee
You aren't fighting anyone.

<11/402hp 277/352mp 220/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!>
Someone has arrived.
Someone has arrived.

<11/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!> w
w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<11/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<11/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!> Alas, you cannot go that way.
<11/402hp 277/352mp 223/223mv 111698tnl ex:You are blinded!> n
n

You make some noise as you are attacked.
You dodge someone's cleave.
Someone has a few scratches.

<11hp 277m 223mv ex:You are blinded!>
< T: a savage grey wolf TC: convulsing E: someone EC: >
< >  n
No way!  You are still fighting!
You writhe in agony from the plague.
Your sickness wounds you.
You are incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.
You shiver and suffer.
You have been KILLED!!

You have died and turned into an invincible ghost for a few minutes.
Inside the temple of the Silver moon
  You stand within a temple adorned with silver lined doors and glinting
silver speckles in the stone slates. You can go north into the temple
courtyard, and those who are level 7 or below may go DOWN into Mud school.

[Exits: north]
A tall knight dressed in warm clothes eyes you carefully as he passes.
(White Aura) A healer is here preaching the word of Gilean.

<1/302hp 1/327mp 104/208mv 111698tnl ex:ND> flee
Nah... You feel too relaxed...

<1/302hp 1/327mp 104/208mv 111698tnl ex:ND> Nah... You feel too relaxed...

<1/302hp 1/327mp 104/208mv 111698tnl ex:ND> Nah... You feel too relaxed...

<1/302hp 1/327mp 104/208mv 111698tnl ex:ND> wak
You stand up.

... skipped a bunch

<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE> l
A bloody part of the Dead Forest
  The ground here is covered in sticky green ichor and scaly bits of flesh.
The smell of putrid waste and wafts in the air, mixing in with the stench
of dead foliage and carrion matter.

[Exits: north east]
     The corpse of a savage grey wolf is lying here.
     The severed head of Kaien is lying here.

<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE> wher
Players near you:
(PK) Kaien      A bloody part of the Dead Forest

<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE> who
-=-=-=-= Visible players in the realms =-=-=-=-
                 Zondra the female minotaur
                 Bggarr the male minotaur
                 Venn the male minotaur
                 Aleth the male wild elf
                 Keliothos the male elf
                 Strahl the male human
            (PK) Kaien the male human
                 Savadi the male gnome
                 Elien the male gnome, Apprentice of the Tower
                 Kreston the male minotaur
                 Bohkinor the male elf
                 Fez the male minotaur, Warder of the Forests
                 Fastaff the male kender
                 Kerratrix the female elf
                 Brodaliz the female minotaur
                 Bouren the male elf
                 Mzzaral the male draconian, Herald of Entropy

Players found: 17

<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE>
Someone says 'only gold taken....' <--- what about my constitution and dignity

<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE> ' Why?
You say 'Why?'
<19/302hp 44/327mp 64/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE>
Someone shrugs helplessly.

<37/302hp 90/327mp 91/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE>
Someone says 'come horse...'

<37/302hp 90/327mp 91/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE>
Someone leaves north.
Someone leaves north.

<37/302hp 90/327mp 91/208mv 111698tnl ex:NE>
The head of Kaien crumbles into dust.

I never even saw the guy, In case you didn't notice I am a neutral druid so it was VERY surprising...
 I'd like to know who killed me though
on a side note, does forest haven work while curse is on?  (I might have lived if I knew)

Yes, my saves are crappy, no, it would not have helped much unless it maybe caused sleep to fail, as they basically killed me in one round anyway

Speaking of assassins and there concentration on stealth,
could you please change human assassins favored stat to dexterity? It seems more in tune with the whole "Stealth class" idea that you have pointed out as the theme of the assassin class (away from say... a martial artist)