Looting and PK

[Solan]

Considered putting this in ideas, but it's basically a question as well as an idea, so it'll go here for now...

Alright, I know this has been said many times before...but let's say it again, shall we?
A bunch of people I know and like playing with seem to be leaving Solace lately...and I feel safe to assume it's happening with other people too
Now, the reason for this is looting.
As well, random pk out of nowhere, but I'll leave that for another topic...
Not just looting of a few choice things, but full looting, something that seems to be getting all too common these days.  This is, quite honestly, a disgusting thing...You spend hours working on a character, collecting nice things throughout the time, and suddenly, often by being ganged up on, you lose it all...
This is, of course, the worst when the person who took it doesn't even use it, but sacrifices or sells everything.
I've been full looted before myself, and had everything sacrificed in some cases, or sold in others
As I see it right now, there are at least two possible solutions.
1) Somehow limit looting.  This could be done perhaps with a tricky bit of coding, though I imagine there would be many bugs to work out, or by having immortals to enforce it.  I understand that, of course, our immortals are not obligated to dedicate time to this or anything.  Perhaps a compromise, one which has been suggested before several times, is to have some people made into avatars or demi-avatars or whatever, immortals who are just around to enforce rules and RP.
Or
2) I seem to recall this from another MUD I tried when Solace was shut down, can't remember which...the Deadly system.  At creation, each character chooses whether to be Deadly or Peaceful.  A deadly character will be just like now, they could be attacked by another Deadly player at any moment.  But a peaceful character will be exempt from PK, just enjoying the MUD for the RP of it, or whatever else.  Perhaps the Arena could be brought back, and peaceful characters could engage in PK there, thereby limiting it exept to when they choose...
The advantage of this would mean that it could solve the problem (hopefully) without losing players, as many people seem to fear.  Those who love to play for the PKing can stay and play deadly characters, while those who don't will be spared from having their enjoyment of the game ruined.

Hmm, well, that's all I can think of to say for the moment, I'll post more when I remember it or think it up...and my apologies if any part doesn't quite make sense without my noticing, putting this together as I enjoy the RP aspect of Solace still...
Opinions and reactions, anyone?

[mad_ilya]

As a matter of fact, I admire the idea of permanent death, like Diablo 2 hardcore   
Your character dies - and that's all.
No matter of how much time you have spend on it.
Believe me, after that you will be fond of current situation.
Just imagine - HOW this CAN change roleplay 
How many emotions this can put into the game.
You do a lot of things, spend a lot of time, become a real hard ass... and suddenly you die from a cleave...
Everything like in real life...
A Hero will be a real HERO!
Duel to death - a real DUEL!
Dead link - sudden insult
Death shoud not be a joke, you know...

May be happyness is not in gathering items?

[Solan]

Not just in gathering items...having a nice RP session with someone, and enter random killer?  Yes, much fun there, isn't it?  Like I said in the second idea, for those who play for PK, fine, whatever, if that seems like a fun idea to you, go for it.  As Dedraelos pointed out some time ago, this MUD is listed as RP Enforced, which it certainly is not at the moment...so for those who do indeed come to us looking to RP, why not have a way they can enjoy it without being the target of someone having a bad day, or someone who takes pleasure in ruining the fun for others?

[mad_ilya]

There's always could be a situation with a random killer - how could you know that an assassin is not waiting for you in shadows just to assassinate you?
You should be careful!  There's always exists a bigger fish

BTW if you want the roleplay be - just roleplay yourself and do not wait or expect from others the same... Happyness is not in roleplay

PS Just kidding, will permanent death reduce random PK or not? 

[hadin]

I wonder what percentage of players have actually read this paragraph...

Player Killing MUST be a role played appropriately. If you are neutral
    you can't just wander up to someone and slay them for no apparent
    reason.   The only exception is if you are attempting to portray a
    homicidal maniac.  This would be completely in character for such a
    persona but it'd also be VERY in character for you to be hunted to
    extermination by the general mortal population and, quite likely, by
    the Immortal population as well.  However, if you wish to roleplay
    such a character, ALWAYS pray to gods first to gain permission and a
    title. Enough said about that I think.


I think perm-death would greatly increase PK, think of someone like Lanzorian who is nearly unbeatable just walking around picking off any char who gets into his range.  I think it would almost eliminate RP because you couldnt afford to do it, wasting time RPing would just get you killed quicker.

BTW if you want the roleplay be - just roleplay yourself and do not wait or expect from others the same... Happyness is not in roleplay

Regretfully alot of players dont RP at all, however alot of players do really enjoy this game because of its RP aspect, and, although I dont do it very often, I enjoy the extended sessions of RP I have with other characters.

now, back to the topic...

I completely agree that something should be done to prevent mass full-looting.  It really sucks working hard to get your equipment, only to have someone come along, kill you, and get as much as he can from your corpse.  Izmar did the same thing to me as well as Maldor, and then didnt even bother to use them.  He just sacraficed them.  (To any1 who is going to say "its part of the game, deal with it..." i know this, its just irritating as hell)

Perhaps a compromise, one which has been suggested before several times, is to have some people made into avatars or demi-avatars or whatever, immortals who are just around to enforce rules and RP.

I could really see this being a beneficial addition to the game.  Could possibly become RP moderators as well. 

At creation, each character chooses whether to be Deadly or Peaceful

I think this would be going too far, would require quite a bit of coding, and as irritating as it can be at times, Solace is what it is because its a player-killing mud.  It would create two sets of characters, and a limited amount of items on each one.  All would depend on whether the person who found the items was deadly or peaceful. 

However, if this kind of switch was made, I would have to insist that in order to join a clan you would have to be Deadly.  Wouldnt make sense if a clan-member couldnt defend or raid clan halls.

[Jemma]

I have suggested this once before, as I play a MUD where you can choose to PK or not to PK .... at time of creation. And it works fine. And I have seen it in other MUDS also, but seems it was not a good idea?

[hadin]

I wasnt trying to say that implementing a deadly/peaceful sort of system in a mud was a bad idea, i was just saying that my personal preference is to keep solace as a RP/PK mud.

I tend to be ambivalent about alot of things, including this, when i wrote the post I was completely against a deadly system, but now I can see that it may have some benefits as well...*ponder*

Well...guess i need to think over my opinion before i post it here...

[Grim Assassin]

I know this might seem grasping and silly, but if the deadly/peaceful system is to make any sense, peaceful players should not be able to carry limited items. If they can, it simply takes the items out of the cycle so that it becomes almost impossible to obtain them.

Or they can only carry 4 limiteds, or whatever.

Apart from that, I see no problems with allowing some players to remain 'out-of-pk'.

Although it will lead to a huge class divide, like 18th centuary lower working class scum and high-upper class lords and ladies

We deadly players will sneer and look down our noses at those who just can't 'cut it' with the big boys.... Just joking guys!

[Jemma]

hmmm, limited carrying isn't such a bad idea, because it makes no difference to me. Only time I would have limited is if I find them in the pit  that's because I am hopeless and I don't know where those pretty things are located and I get lost vewy vewy easily without that brilliant knight by my side 

And, while you may think us peaceful ones are scum and lower class, WE know better 

[Solan]

Well, see, that's sort of the point...those who like PKing wherever and whenever can continue to do it, while those who don't are exempt for it and can just relax and enjoy.
And I agree, there'd have to be considerable limiting on limited items for peaceful characters, and no clanning, but then, they wouldn't need it because they aren't looking to PK day in and day out
Oh, and Grim, don't think you could look down your nose at Serril...he may be shorter, but he can jump pretty high!!

[Mandrake]

If you are neutral you can't just wander up to someone and slay them for no apparent reason.

This is exacly why i have left solace , because warders are acting like solamina and so on and on..

My char never met them, and i never talked to them, and what happens
i was walking around just idling mostly...

Beneath the Canopy
  Tall trees arch high above sight toward the sky. Rocks glisten in a
fresh dew at your feet. Sunlight glints brightly off of the grass
and leaves upon the ground. Off in the far south the peaks of the
Vingaard Mountains scrape precariously at the sky like the fingers
of a god. The forest is teaming full of life all around you.

[Exits: north east south west]
     A jar of nectar is glowing with a yellow hue, transparent and
beautiful.
     This saber is quite sharp and heavy.
(Charmed) A majestic looking griffon regards you with deep, thoughtful
eyes.
(Charmed) A large mountain lion stands here, eyeing you suspiciously.
(Charmed) A large mountain lion stands here, eyeing you suspiciously.
(Charmed) A majestic looking griffon regards you with deep, thoughtful
eyes.
Anelia the female minotaur is here.
A goblin monger wanders mindlessly.
A goblin monger wanders mindlessly.

<1160(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW> 1 n
You yell 'Help! Someone is bashing me!'
Someone sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
Gwihurd fades into view from the surroundings.
Gwihurd's bash grazes you.
You recover from the fall and jump up on your legs!
Your wrath *** DEMOLISHES *** Gwihurd!
You dodge Gwihurd's acidic bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's flaming bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's acidic bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's flaming bite.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry Gwihurd's acidic bite.
You riposte Gwihurd and return an attack of your own!
Your riposte MASSACRES Gwihurd!
You dodge a griffon's claw.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry Anelia's acidic bite.
Gwihurd is covered in bleeding wounds.

<1158(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
You peer intently north.
 **** 1 north ****

 **** 2 north ****
(White Aura) A powerful man-at-arms stands guard over the city.

 **** 3 north ****
A gate guard wearing the armor of Palanthas watches the traffic passing.

 **** 4 north ****
Pentauer the male elf is here.

 **** 5 north ****

 **** 6 north ****

Gwihurd is covered in bleeding wounds.

<1158(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
Anelia lashes your legs, sending you crashing to the ground.
Anelia's lash scratches you.
Gwihurd is covered in bleeding wounds.

<1156(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
Your wrath MANGLES Gwihurd!
Your wrath MANGLES Gwihurd!
Your wrath MASSACRES a griffon!
Anelia uses the surrounding environment to avoid your wrath.
You dodge a griffon's claw.
You dodge a lion's claw.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry a lion's claw.
You dodge a griffon's claw.
You dodge Anelia's acidic bite.
You dodge Anelia's wrath.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry Anelia's acidic bite.
Anelia's wrath MUTILATES you!
You dodge Gwihurd's acidic bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's flaming bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's acidic bite.
You dodge Gwihurd's acidic bite.
Gwihurd is gushing blood.

<1111(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
Gwihurd seems to relax and assumes a more trusting posture.
Gwihurd is gushing blood.

<1111(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
Gwihurd has turned around, trying to escape!
You get one more shot at Gwihurd while he flees.
Your devastating blow MANGLES Gwihurd!
Gwihurd leaves west.
Gwihurd has fled!

<1111(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
You dodge a griffon's claw.
You dodge a griffon's claw.
A griffon's claw decimates you.
You dodge a lion's claw.
You dodge a lion's claw.
You dodge a lion's claw.
You dodge a lion's claw.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry a griffon's claw.
You riposte a griffon and return an attack of your own!
Your riposte MUTILATES a griffon!
You dodge Anelia's acidic bite.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry Anelia's wrath.
You dodge Anelia's acidic bite.
Using your dual wielded swords you parry Anelia's acidic bite.
A griffon is in perfect condition.

<1086(1160) 315(344) 363 |31/704| NESW>
A griffon has turned around, trying to escape!
A griffon leaves south.
A griffon has fled!
Gwihurd has arrived.
A griffon is in perfect condition.

then i fled and asked him why he attacked me
he said to me some buls**t like you have darkened sword and i am
destroying all evil or something like...
and he was ranger in warders..

till idiots roam this mud it will never achive any major score in mud worlds....

[Elutharo]

Aye, seriously contemplating leaving solace.. just deleted 90% of my chars, kept grandmaster (still debating)...of course.anyway things are just getting out of hand and something has to be done. I know immortal staffing here is doing there best and its really appreciated. You guys give us all something to do and enjoy (at some points we dont of course) and i would never forget all the great times from solace. I have been playing since... god darn i think the second age from original solace, anyways a long friggin time. Sad to see how it was just an amazing mud a few years ago, turn into such a brothel for pk lovers. Anyways i like that RP moderator idea, get some enforced pk and things would immediately start the clean up around here.

[Hiddukel]

[ 28] You feel dizzy and sick: A dark vision clouds your eyes
Tue Oct 26 15:15:45 2004
To: all
Witness now ye mortals what fate awaits those that disrespect this land and its people, slaying and stealing with no regard for their ways or their Gods commandments.

Let this be a warning that mindless, random murders that destroy the delicate harmony we are trying to create will no longer go unpunished and forgotten.

Your eyes are clouded by a dark vision...

Chamber of Death
Total darkness in this place.

The torn remains of Andrade are here on a cross.
The torn remains of Ferhaz are here on a cross.

So let it be done.

The first step has been taken. I am watching as best as I can now, and when I see some stupid, reasonless PK, gang-killing full-looting non-limited crap, this is going to be the fate of 99% of the culprits, unless I hear a very good reason.

So from now on, for a few weeks at least, do not be surprised if an Unseen asks you a reason EVERYTIME you kill someone.

It will be annoying and maybe boring for you all at first, but I can't honestly see any other way to start healing the great land Solace. So you have been warned.

If you wish to play the role of a homicidal maniac, I will give you a title and lower your intelligence and wisdom accordingly.

As I don't see many other higher Imms around much, I will act on the above until I am ordered to stop.

Hiddukel

[Majere]

Hiddy and me both.

[Hiddukel]

Good lad, you know it makes sense