Solace MUD Official Forum

http://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/logs/lview2.php?log=26

Well now we know where rp is going!

Erty got code because he was lucky to kill dragon before me.

As for 'They both were killed by me and want revenge' - you'd better say They both were looted by me. No comments on behavior of solamnia knight.

Anyways, don't you think it would be more fair to wait until Erty's done to come raid?

Those gauntlets are going to be the death of you.. 8)

Taking a few things that you use is not a loot. All that I've took from you and Erty I wear by myself. And second, baby you are on war. War is not a duel.

Hrm, i am under the impression we should not loot an honourable foe.

My point is same


Hey, why should I?


I like their source so why should I let Erty to raid?

I don't like to say such words, but, Crusader, you are pathetic scum.
You act like follower of Chaos.
And you break solace's laws, afraid of reraid etc.
In previous times I think there is no one worse than Shapa
Now I know you are just worm (nice word, Chemosh :) ) and Shapa is a child in this sh*t you're doing.

Sure, sure. But as I remember I came and did it. Didn't I? To made second reraid where were no time for me, that was 3 hours of night.   

Iteresting?

Quino: My question was aimed at Crusader. However as a knight you must realize that having a 'dishonourable' foe does not mean act dishonourably yourself.

So far I did not ever (raid reraid duel whatever) looted corpses regardless of foes so I *think* I acted somewhat honourable.


In Russia they say - Enemy is beaten by his own weapon.

Personally, I don't agree that you can't loot honorable foes. If you take a couple of items that you personally need I really don't see anything wrong with it. Just because Erty or whoever is honorable does that mean he gets to keep the gauntlet of striking/other super-limited items forever? We have to cycle the items around. If Solentra sees an item that is useful for Solamnia that they can obtain no other way, should he leave it in the hands of someone who is trying to destroy their cause?

Exactly Proph. And Quino...this isn't russia. This is solace. Knights act honorably even if foe is dishonorable. Just how it is. Unless you all are minotaurs now...

I've seen logs where Erty was fighting more than one Takhisis soldiers, got slain and they touched nothing of his items... Don't you think they needed the GoS as much as you? Your actions are not one of a Knight, imho... At least, if I were in your shoes, I would've not taken anything...

I reckon that if someone is reraiding, they should not be looted at all if they die. Of course, if they then continue trying to reraid then take some items until they learn - chivalry is not JUST about giving people the benefit of the doubt.

If they are trying to raid, then it's fair game to take one or two items which further the cause of the clan you are in to stop them from raiding. A full loot however I don't think is ever acceptable.

And I know logs where I fight one vs 3 heretics and got full loot even crap each time when I was killed and as I rember Erty were among them. I've took only what I need. More, I should sacrifice whole set of weapons in addition. I share completely differ point of view on honour and clan wars at all. To win war you have to destroy not only soldiers of your enemy but resources too. Or you wanna test how long will you survive with pike against tank?

I do not see anything wrong or dishonourable in taking things of your enemy. You seems do not undertsand difference between looting and taking trophies.
And more if a person who is saying this is dishonourable to loot usualy afraid to lost his/her super equipment that's why he/she screams where he/she can about looting like dishonourable things. Sorry guys and girls life is a cruel thing. And it's do not care about your thoughts. Life forces you to do what you have to do to survive. Enemies must be a dust on a road or you will be it. It's simple. Question of honour is how to strike your enemies and face circumstes.

Nothing against the way you want to rp, Crusader you can rp anything you want. but my two cents is that, you being inducted to solamnia was a mistake on the knighthoods part (normall, happens in solace/dragonlance), you being promoted to sword knight was a sign of solamnias downfall and promotion to rose order was clearly a demonstration that Solamnia is nothing of a knighthood. its very simple, you can rp as you want. But a solamic knight is a solamnic knight. there is no discussing, if you dont act knightly your not coherent with your part and pronto. IMHO, assassins should at most be allowed crown position in solamnia, and even for that must prove alot, just because their mothods are unknightly (assassinate strangle), as it says on help.
you have strength of a solamnic surely, and courage (when icly you fight all foes given you, if necissary- though your smart enough not to join realms when its overwhelming).
But your bloodthirsty as hell and not to honorable on my view. When i played with arpade and tried to reraid against you... you looted if i died and had anything of value (arpade almost never looted anybody till the day he died- and most of his life ordered other knights to do the same- exeption was jaslar from herecy, because when he was young heretics slayed him 3vs1 and full looted/sac- as you said happened to you). You followed to the city, atacked there. etc etc etc.
basicly, my point is, you cant face good and evil as simply two sides that kill eachother. goods point is kill evils, evil's point is kill goods. there is all a motivation rp and situation involved in each one, and to me, you just pk the oposite align, and thats a unworthy attitude to the highest ranking knight of the representative organization of goodness in krynn.

ps, to elestel, imho, it IS unhonorable to enter a battle when two other foes are already participating, unless you atack both at the same time or something, to not show favoretism, besides, if someone is having a hell of a work to raid, and you jump in and take the last blow, its as lame as someone killing a mob for a item for hours and you jumping up and getting the items. Unhonorable.

Arpade, make split among mortal enemies and enemies. I have my point of view what does mean to be a knight of Solamnia. I do not hop aroud and kill any evil on sight. Yes, I looted you as I have reason to do it. Not just because I like to loot. And if you do not see it that doesn't mean I will show it that you got the point.  You have your brains to  find out. Wanna honour? Fight with weapons that  your enemy use - hands.
Bloodthirsty? Mortal enemies must be nailed not chatting. Enought of this. I do not want to explain more about it. I always trying to undertand others but seems that others can't see far thier nose. All were explained in my role section and were approved.
About methods that use assassins. You know any soldier hate sniper. Guess why? But still it's takes much more honour to work alone in emeies location. Do you think it's much more honorable to wear heavy armor take huge club and crush all around with brute force?

Plus, many focus thier atention only on organization and title and completely forget about roles of races.

roles of races? *shrug* i read only 3 dragonlance books, in them, elves took time and work to trust solamnia, so, by race, i dont see justification for a bloodthirsty solamnic elf. As far as i know.
you said you have your point of view on what makes a knight of solamnia. I probably misexpressed myself when i posted my note. yopu can rp what you want, but, i tried to say that, when your are in a clan you have to rp the clan. my point is you CANT have YOUR point of view on solamnia. you ahve to play the solamnia given to you. solamnia = honorable. you cant say " ahh but MY solamnic knight does what he wants" and just go and play it and expect it to be ok.
regarding weapons. if, for a example, your got full looted and i atacked to raid, i would agree it would be honorable that i take off my armor to battle you. Now saying that its unhonorable to fight a unarmed specialist with a weapon, your just giving out a lame and unvalid argument. makes no sense at all. the point of disarming yourself to fight a unarmed foe is to fight as his level of skill. if his HIGHEST skill IS unarmed, you find the best sword you have and drill tia asainst it, no complains about it.
I agree mortal enemies must be fought against, killed, you ahve to defeat them and bring your objectives and stop theirs etc. but its HOW its done that differs. You think machiavelicly, the objectives justifies the means. if the evil dies its ok. GOOD aligned chars take a look at the means, your NOT doing greater good with a chaotic slaughter. basic philosophy, go read something.
eh.. about your sniper thing, i really did not understand what you said and see no relation with it with anything at all, really.

What I want to add is: you cannot fight evil using their tactics and techniques... Solamnia is about virtue, courage, sacrifice... Sturm sacrificed himself for the greater good... I agree with the trophy idea, but it would be more fair if you got it after killing Erty who had powers on him... It would be 1vs1 and let the best man win... This way, it leaves the bad taste in mouth... But it's my own opinion, and don't be offended by it... One more question: after Erty raided without GoS, why didn't you reraid?

I agree, but Erty attacked me outside and I attacked him as well.
When I entered keep, I tried not to spent time on Erty but to kill dragon as fast as I can.

But Quino Solentra killed you honourably, and then he looted items(which im not yet sure was the right thing to do).

Ghm he looted me on reraid as I remember.

I did.

I think it doesn't matter then you were killed. The matter is only how to take things. I take things what I need and if where are more things I leave the rest after a few were taken. Where is one exeption sometimes I take whole set of weapons. But it has reason. When I killed Phallen I've took nothing and asked for a prize, he refused. It's up to him. When I assassinated Korkak I returned all his nice axes. When I killed Ery I didn't just type get all corpse I looked and took what I needed.  Solentra do not takes things during time of combat. Even when enemy fall and where is other around, things will not be take until battle will finish and enemy side retreated. When I killed Arpade on reraid and after on raid I didn't take anything too but easly could type get all corpse. I examined it first but Arpade came and got all. I do not stock my pokets with any possible things that have value.

To Arpade: I've got your point. But you didn't get mine. Solentra do not kill chaoticly.

After all those years where did we come to?
Most immortals punish for looting, 99% of players scream on forum about looting.

Do we really need pk? Isn't it nice when there are only stuff-holders who don't fight each other? What is next ???

You should be able to loot and this has nothing to do with RP of Solamnia/Takhisis knights. Of cause, if you are Solamnic/Takh you can not do something like get all corpse; put all sack; get all corpse, since this is a sign of greed. But you can grab couple of items as trophy, if you wish and if this is not forbidden by your role. Just my 2 cents

Got out of the streem seems. Understand nothing.

Heretic came for reraid. Was killed and grabbed some items.
He came again together with Takhisis mage.
Actually cooperating together they raided.

Another point of view. Heretic allowed mage to assist him against assassin, hand-fighting one.

Dark mage, who also has his code of honour, interfered to battle between his both enemy clan representatives. Enemy of my enemy is my friend even if he is my enemy even if my community attacks his community??


Well it's happens. It's wildly out of RolePlay, it's crazy to imagine in Krynn, but it's real life and it happened. OOC or some another bullsh*t, no matter. Or just they both  concentrated on attacking Solamnia, and forgot for their honour, clan rules and roles.
I understand it.

I cannot understand another thing. Why everybody here reading the log spamming 'looting its bad', and saying about RP say nothing about it? It's private Solentra-Erty relationships to loot or not to loot and how much to loot each other corpses. No need to publish it and discuss. Not businness of every long nose on the forum.
 
 But severe violation of clan rules and bla bla bla they did - what the hell  nobody sees it? Blames it? Are you all blind ?

 Ok. It's ok they did. Next time probably allow them group together ? To reraid. Or raid even. After that allow Solentra and Elestiel find third neutral and group against Erty. Etc etc etc. Let make groups of heretics and takhisis servants. That attack each other before for one round to have possibility to claim it, then group and attack anybody.
Nonsense nonsense nonsense.

to crusader... i guess i didint get your point...
to everyone whom made this a loot discussion, i have no problem with looting, i think pk/loot gives the game important adrenalin, and i like it. And, though as i remember in one occasion i died to you, i beleive you did loot :P, its not teh point. i was discussing posture. Once i reraided against two solamnics, a knight i dont see anymore, and dont remember his name, and a cleric, thulga i think.
they battled one at a time, demonstrated honor, etc. Its not like they didint fight me like a enemie, but that, for example, is not a posture i see Solentra taking, and that i beleive is fundamental to a knight of solamnia. Just a example (and i am making assumptions, im just passing the idea i had of solentra untill now). I might not actualy know all his rp, and have only seen a superficial part, but im telling you what ive seen, and the rp you demonstrates is also important (the more visible part in contrast with the occult aspects of a char show what he is more secrative or personal about and a more social side). I dont think ive expressed myself well in this end, but, whatever...
to kender- I find it possible for elestel and erty have rp motives to not priorize eachother. I think you made to much a fuss of it, but you might be right and me wrong. As I said, i think its just somewhat unhonorable.

PS: salutes crusader for the rational discussion (i think many would have been insulted and replied agressively, rather then logcaly, when criticized)

I dont think its really out of role for Erty to ignore or compete against elestels attacks apon solamnia's inner guard. Erty is no minotaur to be insulted he is a kender to take advantage of a situation which could have otherwise resulted in his demise. As Quino said, they clashed outside the keep as they should and once inside it became a competition on who would slay the dragon. If either had left the fight the other would surely have taken the relic. I would be unhappy if Erty or Elestel did not try to raid the other when it was done.

Arpade: Yeah the knight was Gorame, he was a great knight.

Wait a second here.... we're arguing about the RolePlay ethics of a KENDER warlord of the heretics! Does that seem ridiculous to anyone else? If immortals will allow him to break kender's nature by joining a clan and following orders well enough to become the leader of said clan, why can't he cooperate with Takhisis?

Wait for reboot and look at help kender.

I see nothing bad in taking some trophies. In any battle.
I see nothing bad if two clans accept fullooting in their war by some pact. (exept Solamnia and Takhisis, they will never make such pact, wont they?)
If you see Solamnic Knight attacks in a city - pray. We cannot watch every moment of your life.
And if you never loot, do not wait for such actions from every player and do not point - I have never taken any item, why could he?-

dont wanna argue, just to mention Erty - heretic ... well i imagine him heretic more then a kender. His title shows it. As he's heretic he has to take their code of honour. No matter his race at all.

Maybe it's possible to accept the situation. But. If here are attacks of Erty to Elestiel and contrary. If it be battle 1x1x1, not 2x1 like the log showed.

Lol since when do heretics have a code of honour?