Bad times...

[Nospheratu]

http://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/logs/lview2.php?log=30


Maybe I know nothing, but my dwarf would better cut off and eat his own beard than
wear armor of Solamnia after that. Maybe just forbid to induct chars with neutral ethos to
Solamnia and Takhisis? After dragonlance's books I cant imagine any of them attacking in the city.

[Proph]

Man.... a person could get uninducted or even deleted so fast for behavior like that in the olden days. I was in solamnia, and though I didn't agree with everything Solentra did (like give us a really bad name and make my petitions for peace hard to hear over the blood-curdling screams), I found that he roleplayed a lot better than I expected compared to when I tried to fight him with Phallen. Still, he acts kind of like he's in entropy-- or like Dennis Rodman. "Bad as I wanna be"...

Not here just to whine about Solentra or Rakkase's actions though, as I'm sure they've heard plenty of it. Just want to know what the rest of solamnia thinks about it.

If you look back on things though.... Solamnia has had the most corrupted (ie: wasn't initially corrupt) leaders of any clan. Is it really that hard not to attack in town/assist evil?

[dedraelos]

Guardians are the ones in which the laws of man reach over any other in my opinion.

Solamnia, the laws of paladine and goodness reach over the laws of man, again, in my opinion.

[Durewn]

-=-=-=-= Visible players in the realms =-=-=-=-
            (PK) Umgar the male dwarf
                 Drunr the male dwarf, Elder of the Tree
                 Ithail the male elf, Apprentice of the Tower
                 Rakkase the female wild elf, Grandmistress of Solamnia, Lion Wanderer
                 Gnirbli the female gnome, Magister of the Tower
                 Lady Chislev, The Wild One, Beast Queen  <<<<<<<<<<
                 Keonar the male wild elf, Herald of Chaos
                 Ashyon the male half-elf
                 Rayvan the male dark elf
                 Ixtomek the male dark elf
            (PK) Dornkirk the male draconian, Apprentice of the Thorn
            (PK) Kazo the male human
                 Waeld the male kender

Players found: 13

I was surprised either, but:
Immortals saw this and since there was no reaction we should accept it.
And frankly, this what I like, New Grandmaster brings new politics, new DHL brings new Order. Game should depend on us players and on the role we have chosen. If you character don't like it. Enter solamnia, raise an opposition, have strong role and organise Event "Judge of Rakkase", we'll have a lot of fun and you'll have even more - nice role :-)
It is IMHO, of course.

[Sirrion]

Yes Nospheratu, Solamnia is only for Derek (lawful good). There's no way for Sturm (neutral good) to become a Knight. Oh wait, in books he became?

[Sirrion]

If seriously, I'm currently not an Imm, so can't see Rakkase's ethos. If she is good lawful, she has to be punished.

[Crusader]

Again. Please stop mix up laws of cities and heavenly justice. In my opinion where is demarcation point.
In case with Ixtomek he was attacked only when he battled warder. In all other cases I didn't touch him then he was peacefully staying on market square. Again, I didn't hop around and slay every evil. More, during last month I killed only Ajraah. If you do not see reason that doesn't mean I have not it.

[Nospheratu]

2Roberto:

Well, I dont know why you believe that Sturm Brightblade was a neutral good one 
But I doubt that he could attack somebody in Palanthas, perhaps call for guards maybe?
I have no doubts that he would not avoid a battle if under attack, but I cant imagine that
in reworked Solamnic's Measure is rule which allow such actions 

I offered this not to prevent neutral goods from applying to Solamnia Knighthood. You see,
they believe, that if they have neutral ethos, they are allowed to break guardian's rules.
It could lead to war with Guardians. And there is another point. If there is two solamnic in
squad atm, one lawful another neutral. Neutral would strike in city, has lawful to assist?
If his rank in Order is higher he could stop it, but if no, he has to follow orders and assist.
So it leads to misunderstandings inside the Order. And there is another point. The
reputation of Solamnics was really bad till war of the Lance, it was rather hard to turn people
into their side again, and now its about to be broken?

[Quino]

Totally agree, if Sturm entered Inn and saw some goblins/draconians he wouldn't attack them, just simply ignore.

[Werewolf]

I am strongly against Solamnia attacking in the protected areas, and in times of my grandmastership did my best to enforce it. Yes, some knights violated this rule a few times, but mostly it were mistakes, and the official policy was as I stated. I believe that breaking local laws of the cities which are supposed to be under protected by knights, becoming criminals there (no matter receiving a flag from guards or not) and killing guards or getting executed as murderers is a shame and dishonor for a single knight and for the whole Order.

[Moon_Face]

It's very strange for me. Where is difference between goblins in a City and Goblins out of City?
Will Sturm attack every goblin out of city? There is no connection among Code of Honor and Humans laws. Human Laws for Guardians.

And i've read there someone said that even Dark Knights do not attack in cities. Maybe i know nothing and i've met only damned bastards among Takhisis, but during all my 8 years in Solace Takhisis Knights fought for Palanthas to take control over it as they control Arkham. The last, who attacked me in a city was Zerthan, DHL, Champion basher . And he was really right doing it.

Solamnia should fight in cities to take control over them. It's one of thier big goals from my point of view.  I offer even to include that moment in text on Cross with Code of Solamnic Knights.

[Crusader]

Dishonour for a knight is to betray his/her believes not break a law of city. Dishonour is to keep silence when  injustice happen.

PS: You want to kill any but you don't want that that any will touch you. If you want to share your bread and your house with an enemy it's up to you. But not in my case.

[bloom]

Hmm, where should better solamnic knight show his obbedience to Paladine or Krir-Jolith? In respecting the law or in victory over Takhisis knight (even if he is in the city). I am for breaking of law only in one case: if enemy is from Takhisis and knight use attack to defend himself.
The same thing for Takhisis.
 

[bloom]

Actually, i think that Code of solamnia gives to the knights authority to take the Law in their hands in some uncommon situations.

If someone can remember, few weeks ago, two imms took forms of some tough creatures of evil and good and fought in center of Palanthas. As i recall, knights from Solamnia were there fighting too. They could not enjoy the fun and help their captain if they believed that they are doing something wrong fighting in the city

PS Sorry but i cant remember which mobs were, it was in my cash memeory and now is almost deleted. But certainly there is a log of it.

[Werewolf]

But much more dishonor is slaying innocent, pirsuing own goals. Knight should not think like: "look, my enemy here, I wish to kill him no matter what", but rather "There are ordinary people around, many of whom will be slain if battle starts right here. I should try to move fight out of city to save them."

But if imms are fine with it (seems so), you can RP ambitious knight who seeks victory, not counting lifes spent for it. Not too knightly though, more fitting Takhisis army.

[bloom]

"There are ordinary people around, many of whom will be slain if battle starts right here. I should try to move fight out of city to save them."

Hehe, knights are not bombing or shooting at enemies, so i dont see how they can harm others. Actually, ordinary people have their own intelligence and they will save themselves by running, if they are not suicidal maniacs. Actually knight attacking Entropy will do a favor to city law. It will make life of loyal citizens more safe. Police is using the use same weapons as criminals, but that does not make them criminals.
I've said, only in rare situations solamnic code allows knights to take law in their hands. Hunting annoying enemy hiding in city could be it. And in the Code, the first thing is Justice and righteousness, and after that comes Law. First things come first.

[Crusader]

But much more dishonor is slaying innocent, pirsuing own goals. Knight should not think like: "look, my enemy here, I wish to kill him no matter what", but rather "There are ordinary people around, many of whom will be slain if battle starts right here. I should try to move fight out of city to save them."

But if imms are fine with it (seems so), you can RP ambitious knight who seeks victory, not counting lifes spent for it. Not too knightly though, more fitting Takhisis army.

Childish opinion. You want to save all sheep and give food to all wolves.
You forget that nomaly gates of cities of goodies will be closed to any evils and outlaws. But in Solace they are not. So expect actions accordingly with it.

[Proph]

Dishonour is to keep silence when  injustice happen.

Ummmmm.... don't get me wrong Crusader, but from the looks of things, ixtomek was attacked first by the warder, so the injustice wasn't on his part (though there may be some backstory here). The way I see it, you were just trying to capatalize on a weakened mage by attacking him after Drunr-- which is typical assassin behavior you can defend, but don't feed us this crap about being honourable.

IMHO solamnic knights are supposed to be the supreme example of righteousness. Attacking relatively peaceful (mischievous though they may be) creatures in palanthas is in direct conflict with this... so shame on you both 

Here's a few excerpts from the help file of "Solamnia" which was apparently newly written:

Any of the Light who are lawful may petition to join the Knights of Solamnia.

They are to help defend the helpless and aid those in need of aid. They are the epitome of goodness.

You decide for yourself who you feel is in need of aid... As for the epitome of goodness: these are strong words that sound like they carry a great deal of moral responsibility. To me, that means you stay your hand and don't create unnecessary conflict. I hope new applicants to Solamnia can consider this, unless the current Solamnic order is trying to roleplay a corrupted orginization. If that's the case, keep up the good work!

[Crusader]

To ProphallictiC:
You look on injustice from point of view of guardian. That's wrong.

Help is outdated.

[Rialon]

Well, actually Drunr did attack first. But i would expect help of at least Rakasse, for she had some interaction with Drunr. Also maybe, a wild elf as a Grandmaster brings the Order closer to Warders. Just a thought. 
Anyways, Solamnics with neutral ethos are there for a reason and until that is changed i do not think they should act like Guardians, for they have long ago lost the need to keep up the laws, imho.