Clanless knight with takhisis shadow

[daleth]

http://solace.i-read-you.ru/forum/logs/lview2.php?log=88

[NameChanger]

Khmmm... And what?

[daleth]

> Khmmm... And what?

Nothing yet.

I am awaiting, when first log (that I have sent to admins) will be allocated ([b i g l o g] tag doesn't work). In this first log I + mishacler hopelessly lose to Seregil.
The point of two logs is: yes, I realize that diffirent classes are supposed to beat different foes and lose to other foes. I realize that there is no (and should not be) such thing as balance. But. Still. Something is wrong here.

PS: I still think You could defeat me after sting if you would do right thing...

[NameChanger]

I hoped for more long series of fight...
But yes, it's disarming - i'm in clan you -  not...
And my stuff better yours.

Sure, i have not bad chances after sting, but if you have a good saves, i almost have no sting .

Seems, i can only kill newbies or be a good support - {strangle, latch, stalk, may be sting}

[daleth]

There is other thing, that disarms me even more: I can not nor hold You, nor see You (hide). That makes my battle with You simply senseless...

[deda]

Unless you fight him in outside cities...

[strange_dude]

Well your Ergon is tough guy anyway,  I wonder how to deliver lot of damage to you Except for cleave-back-cleave

[daleth]

> Well your Ergon is tough guy anyway,  I wonder how to deliver lot
> of damage to you  Except for cleave-back-cleave

When logs with Seregil and Anrakh will be allocated, You will see how to deliver *A LOT* of damage upon poor knight...
And, by the way, You did a lot more damage on me than I did on You.
I simply over-healed myself. And some luck with staff of Stars.

By other hand, You used sanc and (I am almost sure) harden + haste (didn't You?). I used nothing, so I still have some reserve :-)

[strange_dude]

for sure I did Without it I hardly can stand against you.  But had no weapon with apropriate dam time,  and I dunno which one do I need, due to log where you fight anrak and seregil I definetely should find some divine.

[Quino]

Beneath the Canopy

[Exits: north east south west]
A jar of nectar is glowing with a yellow hue, transparent and beautiful.
A magical spring flows from the ground here.
A nature spring flows from the ground here.
(Charmed) A young green dragon is here awaiting her master's command.
Mottram the male human is here.
The gods protect you from Gragretor.

It seems like a bug for me here

[strange_dude]

just gragrectors snare or something like this

[Quino]

Yes, but since Gragretor is not visible, you should not receive message like The gods protect you from Gragretor. but rather The gods protect you from someone.

[kender]

You are wrong, the classess you fought are of roughly equal power.
Just invoker was prepared and assassin was not.

Harden, protection, sanc - seems he had nothing of that.
So you stayed alive after you have got stinged.

[daleth]

You are wrong, the classess you fought are of roughly equal power.
Just invoker was prepared and assassin was not.
Harden, protection, sanc - seems he had nothing of that.
So you stayed alive after you have got stinged.

 He had protection, but doesn't matter. Nothing You mentioned would help him to damage more.
 The fact is: invoker is capable to produce really *HUGE* damage, shadow - is not. This must be balanced by tanking ability: I mean invoker must get way more blows than shadow does. What do we see? On average, invoker takes approximately the same amount of hits (at least, not way more). Add to this he has greater resistance/immune to almost every dam type that weapon can have (excluding 'poisonus byte', 'acidic' and 'none', may be). This makes invoker rather comparable to shadow as tank, but still he damages way-way harder. That was the point.

[strange_dude]

You are wrong, Invoker is much worse as a tank. And his huge damage is mostly of lightning/fire damtype.

[Vasq]

You lose 33 experience points.
You hear someone's death cry.

Strip wrath from this betrayer!! 

[kender]

You are wrong, the classess you fought are of roughly equal power.
Just invoker was prepared and assassin was not.
Harden, protection, sanc - seems he had nothing of that.
So you stayed alive after you have got stinged.

 He had protection, but doesn't matter. Nothing You mentioned would help him to damage more.

You are true. But he lose NOT coz he could not damage more. He lose (and Уou stayed alive) coz he was not protected enough to kill you stinged. Else he just dealt comparable little damage but it could be enough to win the fight.

The fact is: invoker is capable to produce really *HUGE* damage, shadow - is not.

Agree. It's benefit of invoker class. Shadow class has no such benefit.

This must be balanced by tanking ability: I mean invoker must get way more blows than shadow does.

Must? If there are be fighting classes in the world i probably would agree you. But there are much more advantages except of damage dealing and ability to successfully tank, right?

What do we see? On average, invoker takes approximately the same amount of hits (at least, not way more).

I doubt you are wrong here. For example there were solamnic assassins who withstanded heretics quite easy. Coz they were vulnerable for spec attacks only, direct hits rarely got'em. Do you see tower invokers blocking blows so easily?

Add to this he has greater resistance/immune to almost every dam type that weapon can have (excluding 'poisonus byte', 'acidic' and 'none', may be). This makes invoker rather comparable to shadow as tank, but still he damages way-way harder. That was the point.

Its another benefit of invoker class. In exchange shadow has assassinate ability (kill the greatest munchkin in the world!), hide (undetect in fact), kidnap (funny random encounter ability, allows to die with greatest munchkin together), sting of manticore ( You saw action of the skill. Isnt its cool? Isnt it costs of invokers shields?). Vanish - teleport thats more safe than usual.

So i belive the classess are comparable of equal power.

[daleth]

You are true. But he lose NOT coz he could not damage more. He lose (and Уou stayed alive) coz he was not protected enough to kill you stinged. Else he just dealt comparable little damage but it could be enough to win the fight.

Sting was off exactly after he fled (next round, not tick). So, even if he would be perfect cond to that moment but dealt the same damage, I would escape anyway.

Do you see tower invokers blocking blows so easily?

I mean takhisis invoker, to be honest. Interp hands + blink + phantasmal armor  ==   very, very good tank.

Its another benefit of invoker class. In exchange shadow has assassinate ability (kill the greatest munchkin in the world!), hide (undetect in fact), kidnap (funny random encounter ability, allows to die with greatest munchkin together), sting of manticore ( You saw action of the skill. Isnt its cool? Isnt it costs of invokers shields?). Vanish - teleport thats more safe than usual.

I know shadow's abilities perfectly, really   It is ultimate pk-machine at low ranks (~18), but at hero against enemy with good saves it really sucks. I am surprised he managed to sting me twice, indeed. Usually, the only thing You are able to land upon strangled enemy - nerve. Even blindness dust is exceptionally hard. Kidnap *or* sting - great luck.
Vanish rocks, of course, but it is not shadow's feature.

[NameChanger]

Agreed with Daleth.

It's almost impossible to blind+kidnap+sting strangled target. And even if i will find a great-great-great luck and will blind+kidnap+sting - i have small chance to kill.

Usually i just blind target and have no more time to try sting or kidnap him.

I tested sting - clanmate has less 30 saves and i stinged him once from near 100 attemps.

Kidnap lost one of his advantages - now shadows cannot break groups with kidnap becouse chance of kidnapping very small. Add, that kidnap not works in cursed areas, not work on cursed characters. Result - kidnap almost useless in real combat on hero ranks.

Vanish checks curses too - in most cases shadows use recall instead vanish.

Blindness dust not work on transmuters now...

As i notice, rescues breaks latch atacks, so we have nice recept to aviod it.

And aye, shadows have no damage.
This combat - just boring, i not hunted Ergon with all my skills, but it's becouse i tired of playing shadows - great power against newbies and have no power in strong battles.

Sure, it's very great skills - latch and stalk, when i have Anrakh and Seregils on my back, but something are wrong here.

One thing is true about seasons and shadows - it's hard to kill clanless assassin.

[kender]

If he'd succesfully dirt kick you after first raund he could win i think... and disarm also &)

Sting was off exactly after he fled (next round, not tick). So, even if he would be perfect cond to that moment but dealt the same damage, I would escape anyway.

Seems your knight is powerful enough to stay alive even stinged... so only way he could win the fight is assassinate you/

I mean takhisis invoker, to be honest. Interp hands + blink + phantasmal armor  ==   very, very good tank.

Agree.

I know shadow's abilities perfectly, really   It is ultimate pk-machine at low ranks (~18), but at hero against enemy with good saves it really sucks. I am surprised he managed to sting me twice, indeed. Usually, the only thing You are able to land upon strangled enemy - nerve. Even blindness dust is exceptionally hard. Kidnap *or* sting - great luck.
Vanish rocks, of course, but it is not shadow's feature.

So you have to be satisfied with asassinate, hide and stalk abilities as a main power of shadow assassin. Used in right place in right time it can result in wonderful victories.