h2h

[zondra]

I think they need another skill the damage done by fighters with this spec is sad, ground control nice. But other than that nothing really, May be have a minor style even weaker than tiger,same with assassins only let two hits be done with weapons while in style

[Kage]

- Trying to make a suggestion here that won't be abused....hmm.  I think we probably just need to think of weapon groups to see if they are streamlined,  Perhaps like this :

1) Damage

2) CC/Utility

3) Hybrid

-  People take a weapon group to grow/damage etc and then others to lag/finish kill.  I'd say H2H is taken for CC mainly,  so a more reliable damage would put it in hybrid category which is fine ...but then it should damage less then pure damage weapon and cc less then pure cc category.

-  I'm no H2H spec pro but you have be careful not to tread too hard on Assassin territory since they don't get all the other damage types of a fighter (Need damage type shurikens tbh).  Immediately a passive came to mind for h2h fighter spec,  a "chance" for basic attack to lag opponent slightly...the amount of a shocking weapon perhaps.  Something like:

Staggering blows - You have trained to strike with concussive force,  your attacks have a slight chance to stun your foe. (maybe trigger only off crits?)

"You put all your weight into your strike and your staggering blow ***DEMOLISHES*** the troll making him stumble"

-  Of course then this pushes H2H down a more streamlined cc line.  If I was to suggest a damager for H2H I'd also consider a passive "flare" or unblockable attack considering you are most likely using H2H for throw/crush etc.  So just make the flare of the above idea,  lag and/or deal extra damage dependant on balancing.... or make it unblockable when it flares. 

[zondra]

Maybe make it a hard to find book to learn it

[omledufromage]

A book for hand spec fighter? Kind of specific, don't you think?   (Well, if imms are up for it)

As for me, i'm just against styles for fighters. Personally, I find unarmed styles are assassins territory. No trespassing allowed.  
Rest is up to imms and community.

But I myself like h2h as it is.

As for the staggering blow idea:
A passive that stuns? Kind of broken, isn't it?

[zondra]

What happened to not answering my post

[omledufromage]

I meant not answering deliberate provocations. Not when you are just being a regular guy.

But if you prefer, I think I can just stop answering altogether.

[zondra]

No i like your ideas and insight,never questioned that

[Kage]

- Yeah that's why I was thinking hard about what won't be abuseable. The devil is in the details,  a stun that triggers like "shocking " weapon isn't that OP but if it triggered too often or duration too long then yes. 

- I was more suggesting a concept for a cc weapon spec rather then more damage.  This would help fighters stick on foes ....though other specs help a bit with that.

[n00b]

h2h spec is a choice of a poor.
The only use - reequip after FL or fight when disarmed.
If someone choose weapon spec to reequip often - kinda strange. He prepare self to die often?
As for disarmed fight..maybe...not sure.

It needs special skills, usefull and available only when you fight unarmed. Throw is not one of them. Even with GC. Again it is poor men's choice.
Imagine fighter with h2h, swords and daggers. Will he remove weapons to fight h2h? Maybe (maybe!) at endfight to hold enemy with throws.
Most of time he will be armed.

But few unique skills can turn the tables.
maybe..

earclap - deafen
jaw break - silence can not talk, can not cast. For a short duration. or untul cured by herbs, bandage or any special spell/empower/skill
break arm - weaken, chance to drop weapon (even if still strong enough to hold it)
grab weapon - risky disarm with less chance, can harm fighter if not successfull but if succeed - he get's weapon and begin to wield it. can not grab cursed for sure.
fingers into the eyes.. or call it something else. harmfull blindness. can not be cured.

or just get boxing termins
uppercut - chance to break jaw, silence (look above)
hook - chance to deafen.
jab - chance to break nose (bleeding)

close combat - auto or not, maybe you can switch if you wish to use it auto like stance or style. You go into close fist fighting with one enemy from the group. couple of rounds his friends do not hit you with autoattacks and maybe can hit their mate with targeted like a lunge or boneshatter.

I do not mean that all this skills should be added. maybe one of them or few of them.

And for sure - ultimate h2h skill is a ball breaker.
 Like a Johny Cage performed in Mortal Kombat.
Can be performed only agains opponent who's size equal or bigger and only agains males.
Pain, shock, stun, can not cast spell, use empowers, skills, and begins to hate you!

[zondra]

I like those ideas

[omledufromage]

As I said. I like h2h. I never was disappointed with it. Very useful specialization, very powerful outcomes, much beyond n00b's limited vision.
But I'll let each person learn for themselves its usefulness.

[Kage]

As I said. I like h2h. I never was disappointed with it. Very useful specialization, very powerful outcomes, much beyond n00b's limited vision.
But I'll let each person learn for themselves its usefulness.

- Although H2H is still lackluster I do think if you plan to take spear it is helpful for after you harpoon someone.  After you harpoon you are forced to H2H and then you could throw for anti-escape maximizing.  Put taking a whole spec for one specific scenario is tough to validate at the expense of losing a whole other spec.

-  Now if H2H did something like access to improved crush/bash/trip/kick in addition to wonky hand2hand skill access then we would be talking.  These improved versions could have less CD or more lag time or land better or available mounted etc.

[zondra]

I do think it should be improved damage done is weak

[omledufromage]

Keep an open mind, guys. Hand-to-hand fighter using nothing but his fists is supposed to be worse then any assassin in damage dealing. If you are crying your way into getting it equalized, you are wasting your time trying to make the strategic side of Solace's gameplay much poorer. Fighter has versatility on his side, and in this sense H2H spec is not only a extremely efficient specialization, but I personally think it is downright awesome and necessary (especially for big-sized fighters).

As for access to an "improved crush", H2H spec does give you exactly that. It's called crush+ground control.

Again, I prefer to let each person find out for themselves what works better with it and how. It's not just a matter of other specializations, but of feats, race, alignment, etc...

PS: I find it funny that from one side people complain that fighters need better H2H damage and from the other people complain that assassins lack non-physical damage dealing. Seems to me that all you guys want is one class called "GOD" which does everything. Hey, that would be fun! Wait... no it wouldnt...