More action

[Raider]

but do_energy_drain function is a bit easier to change than parry, right?

Just compare nowdays with old days of Solace. People were a lot easier to KILL, and PK action was
intense. I am sure that more killing blows will lead to more action.

[Kiri-Jolith]

Just to make it more clear. I think that people quit and avoid fighting, because they afraid to die. It doesn't matter how skills or spells work, players would still fear. Lets discuss skills and spells in another thread, and lets try to finish with anti-quit ideas here.

The problem I am trying to discuss is not why it is not interesting to fight, but why people prefer to quit instead of fighting.

[Kiri-Jolith]

Just compare nowdays with old days of Solace. People were a lot easier to kill, and PK action was intense.

In old days we had no 9 million players in WoW. And other MMORPGs were crap, even compared to MUDs. Yes, in WoW it is much easier to kill, but also you don't afraid to die at all, because there is no equipment loss.

Again, I am sure that more killing blows will lead to faster typing of quit. Its not old days, and now people have taste for PvP without being loted.

[Raider]

It is all linked, dont you see?

people cannot fight w/o gear because skills/spells are done in that way.
so to be able to fight they need to keep gear, so they avoid fights where they can die.
Const loss is nothing compared to time need to achieve gears to be able to stand in a fight.

PvP in wow sucks. I prefer Solace PK.

[Kiri-Jolith]

It is all linked, dont you see?

people cannot fight w/o gear because skills/spells are done in that way.
so to be able to fight they need to keep gear, so they avoid fights where they can die.
Const loss is nothing compared to time need to achieve gears to be able to stand in a fight.

I don't see it. Even with better skills and spells, super-geared player will kill under-geared. But not 1vs2, when super-geared will just type "quit".

[ezus]

Kiri, this is question of mentality. People will avoid pk with any changes... if they need. Personally i think that Immortals can solve this problem with some punishment. But not with code changes. And you know that all that you need to solve it - time. A lot of free time for Solace. And you haven't as many of us.

[Kiri-Jolith]

but do_energy_drain function is a bit easier to change than parry, right?

The spell has 96 lines of code: damage calculation and 3 strangely balanced affects. Also I'd like to add that you need to test the code when you change it. It really takes lots of time.

[Kiri-Jolith]

Kiri, this is question of mentality. People will avoid pk with any changes... if they need. Personally i think that Immortals can solve this problem with some punishment. But not with code changes. And you know that all that you need to solve it - time. A lot of free time for Solace. And you haven't as many of us.

Well, we are talking about how to make people want to participate in PK. At this moment players mostly prefer to quit instead. Personally, I think PK should be enjoyable in the MUD. So I'd like to change things, which make quit preferrable to death so much.

[ezus]

Perhaps some PK bonuses then? And if someone will try to cheat with it - harsh punishment.

I have some ideas. I will write it to you. But not today. Need to clean my head from alcohol.

[Raider]

For me its obvious.
The reason for quit - fear of gear loss.

Fear of gear loss is because w/o gear you cant fight.

Change the latter - and the problem solved.

undergeared should at least have chances to kill supergeared guy with luck, tactics, right moment etc. And this is where skills/spells factor in.

Pk bonuses... do PK rating chart

[Kiri-Jolith]

Perhaps some PK bonuses then? And if someone will try to cheat with it - harsh punishment.

Alas, punishment is not an option. And PK bonuses, which ones? Like pooffing limited items, if no PK action during a large period of time? You will abuse it.

[Kiri-Jolith]

Fear of gear loss is because w/o gear you cant fight.

This is not the problem. Even if you could fight without super-gear, you are much stronger with it. There is no point in good gear if you cannot win, when using it.

[Raider]

if so.. why should i go and fight, if i am undergeared and i have no chances to win, huh?

flaw in your logic.

[ezus]

Perhaps some PK bonuses then? And if someone will try to cheat with it - harsh punishment.

Alas, punishment is not an option. And PK bonuses, which ones? Like pooffing limited items, if no PK action during a large period of time? You will abuse it.

No, not  pooffing an such things. I think in another way. Close to PK chart.

[Kiri-Jolith]

if so.. why should i go and fight, if i am undergeared and i have no chances to win, huh?
flaw in your logic.

Nope, there is no flaw. You may be not completely undergeared and win with a lower chance. But when you are super-geared, and have big chances to win 1x1, you would like to keep it this way. So when it comes to reraiding 1x2, when you may die with much higher chances, you quit. The problem is not in under-geared players, they don't quit unless spamm killed and such, and it really needs a swift fix. The problem is in christmas trees, who rarely fight and ofter quit.

I see your point quite clearly now. I will try to give you one more example. Lets say, we have a super-geared player in Solamnia, who needs to reraid, and two smart normal-geared players in Takhisis. Lets assume the chances to die 1x2 are 50%, because Takhisis has access to ice wall. So Solamnic member will ask for 'who' in IRC (insert whatever you want) and won't login. Because he will be forced to reraid, so probably he will die and get looted. It means that two normal-geared Takhisis players will have no action unless one of them quits. Now, imagine that Solamnic player will not lose anything when he reraids and probably dies. Why not to come and give it a try with 50% success? Why not to put your super-gear in use, and win 1x2, this is funny and not dangerous to your character. Even if you die, it was 1x2, and you don't lose anything.

[moq]

even if he wont lose anything said solamnic could prolly afraid fot his 'reputation' (for 2 IRC takhisis will surely post a log how they pwned that infamous knight) and so on and so forth =)

[Kiri-Jolith]

Well, what I wanted to say is that when you have nothing to lose you count minimal chances to win. When you have a lot, you count minimal chances to die. Raider was talking about first, while I am talking about the second.

[Raider]

My view is just different.
In example you stated, i'd come as solamnic and attack keep of two cowards. Wouldnt go inside, to avoid wall of ice, would have been protected against curse and blindness, balance and/or ros/ps to protect against stuns - so i can always flee. I have means to protect against cleave and spy mask to protect against assassinate.  I'd kick those two asses and post a log with "You writhe in pleasure and scream 'The PPppppPOOOOoooWWWwwwErrRRR!'"  tag
and would feel myself cool.

Tactics..

so, basically its a choise of "risk of losing eq" vs "fun from pk"
there are people who dont get fun out of pk.

[unreal]

Реально напрягает в праздники еще и в инглише упражняться, если кому надо - переводите сами.
Мысль такова: Закройте нафиг этот топик ибо он ни к чему не приведёт кроме ахрененого вайна. НЕ НАДО ничего делать для ипрува экшна, он сам импрувнется. Растёт онлайн - вырастет и пк - гарантирую. Просто реальная ситуация сейчас такова что большинство игроков, тех кто реально шарит в пк и любит это занятие немножко задолбили особо ревниво относящиеся к своим обязанностям иммы (*не показывая пальцем кивнул в сторону моргса*). Я думаю это пройдет через полмесяца-месяц и они вернутся.. всмысле мы.. всмысле чаров наконец откачаем.. играть банально некем/нечем Ваш выбор заключается в том чтобы следить за реальными нарушениями правил игры а не задалбливать игроков идиотизмом типо "импрува РП".

Импрув РП, который привел к делету моего апплика, заключался в том что меня провоцировали на файт с аутером клана в который собсно я пытался попасть. Если вы внимательно почитаете рулесы - вы увидите что это невозможно. Т.е. меня банально воткнули в положение из которого следовало 2 выхода:
1) атаковать аутера и по рулесам не пройти в клан
2) уйти, удалить апликашн ноту и опять же не попасть в клан.

Енфорсите РП дальше. Желаю удачи.  

[dedraelos]

The reason I usually quit....

1. 3+ opposing clan coming online
2. Nobody else online, nothing to do. Too difficult for single player who's not super duper elite to go to hard places.
3. Player does something that gets me pissed at him. This can be pulling in friends from OOC means to kill me and loot me, or raiding me 15 times when not in my pk range.